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  #1  
Old 04-15-2009, 05:10 AM
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Bakail double rifle 45 70


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All ways wanted a clasic English double rifle but couldnt justify the expence . I have seen Bakail double rifles for sale and was wondering if any one had any experaince with these rifles . How strong is the action? Can they be loaded to the same presure as say a ruger number 1 . How do they shoot? Any other coments about them ?
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  #2  
Old 04-15-2009, 02:04 PM
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No one had any experiance/opinions on these double rifles? Just thought I would put a post in to put this thread at the top of the page again.
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  #3  
Old 04-15-2009, 02:36 PM
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Couldn't comment on the double rifle, but can on the 12ga coach gun. Both barrels shot slugs to the same point of impact at 25 yards, and at the point of aim consistently, with Winchester Super-X Rifled Slugs. I was pleasantly surprised from a $200 gun. The cylinder bore really spread the buckshot. And it kicked like a mule.
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  #4  
Old 04-15-2009, 04:09 PM
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I could only give you my opinion since I never own or fire a baikal double rifle, but I am familiar with baikal shotgun, on the early one the finish was a little crude, but since low priced they sold fairly. With usage the closing on some of the action start wobble a little... and I do not consider the action closing system very strong. This in regard to the shotgun, I assume that action and closing system used for the the rifle is made stronger since working pressure is much high pressure ... but definetely not as strong as the Rugger #1. The Rugger is a very robust action.
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  #5  
Old 04-15-2009, 07:06 PM
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I googled Baikal (sorry about early miss spelling) double rifle and found that a few yrs ago Remington marketed them in the USA under the "Spartan" brand name . Any one got any feedback on Spartans double rifles ?
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  #6  
Old 04-15-2009, 08:05 PM
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Check this out http://forums.accuratereloading.com/...04/m/682106939 , if you join accuratereloading you can do a search and find more about these guns, generally the double rifle crowd don't like the rifle. When your double cost 10 grand, one for $800 don't compare. Also lots of "bigbore fans" turn their nose up at the 45-70 and dismiss it as a mere blackpowder round and don't consider it as a "bigbore". You will find lots of negative comments about these guns but like I said before if you have a gun that cost several thousands of dollars and are some of the finest guns made, how can you like a $800 gun ???
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  #7  
Old 04-15-2009, 08:57 PM
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Thanks Dave , i checked out that other forum . Still like the sound of these double rifles . Found over the yrs that I rarely shoot any more than 2 shots out of my 30/30 . These double rifles would be great for reloading , want be scratching in the grass for the empty shell after a second folow up shot . I also agree that there is a lot of snobishness about expensive . I have found that most guns shoot better than most shooters can shoot them . i prefer to buy a cheaper gun ,a and spend more money on amo and shoot it .
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  #8  
Old 04-16-2009, 03:33 AM
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To Love....Or Not

Have always wanted a double rifle in one of the 4000+ ME chamberings. Still do, but when getting serious about spending the money,seems a little "throw up" comes into the back of my throat.

The biggest problem with doubles is the regulation. For me the weapon would have to shoot withing 2 inches at 50yds. Most all of the finer doubles will do that easily. The Baikal ??

If I did contemplate taking a double in .45-70,would also want it to be able to take the Ruger #1 pressures.

There is alot of stuff that goes into making a double. I understand why the cost could be several grand. But when they start approaching $6K,I feel that you are paying for the fancy wood and name stamped on them. When they reach $12-$15K+,the company is marketing to the people that have a overabundance of money and are looking for something to spend it on. -----pruhdlr
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  #9  
Old 04-16-2009, 04:00 AM
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The issue with the Baikal DR is the method of regulation. High quality DRs have the barrels soldered together in a jig. Then they are test fired. The resulting group is examined and then the barrels are desoldered, adjusted and resoldered. Then they are fired again - repeat until regulated.
The Baikal, IIRC, uses a jack screw to bend one of the barrels so that it shoots to the same point as the other. There is considerable discussion as to whether this method will hold zero over time.
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Last edited by Pete D.; 04-16-2009 at 04:03 AM.
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  #10  
Old 04-16-2009, 05:20 AM
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I have seen these rifles advertised in a lot of places for several years, but I don't believe many of them have ever actually made it to market.

My opinion is based on nothing but a modicum of knowledge about such guns in general. The Baikal is essentially a boxlock shotgun action, a very simple, sturdy one. Such an action is fine for use with standard loads, but is not up to the kind of pressures a well-made falling block like the Ruger No. 1 can take. Actually, this, in itself, is no liability -- double rifles are not designed or intended to be long-range shooters, and have traditionally gained their "stopping power" by the use of large-caliber, heavy-bullet, moderate-pressure loads.

Every Baikal shotgun I've ever handled has had a trigger action I would charitably call "bad", heavy and gritty. Although this could probably be addressed by someone experienced with tuning a boxlock, it's not a job I'd care to tackle. On the plus side, some of those shotguns have seen many, many rounds fired, and have held up well.
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  #11  
Old 04-16-2009, 01:13 PM
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i have the baikal double barrel shotgun with 45-70 barrel inserts. i think it is a good gun, but there is some work needed to be done before you go shooting the gun, like head space. the setup is easy to regulate with spacers that go around end of barrel. the first shot i fired i had a primer perced and broke the stock. so i had to cut the firing pin springs to fix that problem. if i had it to do all over i think that i would just use slugs if i wanted to have a cheap double rifle slugs have come along way in the last 10 years.
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  #12  
Old 04-17-2009, 04:24 PM
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I looked into these when they were marketed as the Spartans, but I never actually saw any for sale. I could never find any reviews either.
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  #13  
Old 04-17-2009, 04:47 PM
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Hmmmmm,Thinking of a ? or 2

I'll skip over and ask James about a well regulated double shotgun. ------pruhdlr
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  #14  
Old 04-18-2009, 07:00 AM
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One of the shops here in town has one for sale. They are kind of clunky and utilitarian.Cost is right at a grand. I wouldnt shoot anything more than SAAMI spec loads through it as it doesn't appear very robust and I have yet to hear of anyone reputable saying it could even handle Buffalo Bore ammo let alone Ruger level loads.

I was thinking that the one they were planning on offereing in 30-06 would be very nice. Think I'll pass after seeing the one.
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  #15  
Old 04-22-2009, 07:29 PM
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I have seen both the 45/70 and a 3006 version of the Baikel. Seemed like really nice and well made products to me. You can adjust the second barrel to shoot to the first with an adjust underneath both barrels. I don;t need one but I am soooo tempted given the usual pricing for a double rifle.
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  #16  
Old 04-22-2009, 07:31 PM
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Reading the above comments it would seem that some people want a Rolls Royce for a Ford price. The Baikels are what they are value for money basic guns. What a bunce of cheap skates.
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  #17  
Old 04-23-2009, 07:58 AM
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Double rifles are a work of art and a specialized hunting tool. They are made to usually print at 50 or 75 yrds on the same point with both barrels using a particular load and bullet weight, if the load or the bullet is changed or both then the rifle is out of tune and they print in a very different spot rendering some time pending on the distance the rifle very inacurate, there for very dangerous if the hunter is after some creature that he just pist off and could eat him for breakfast.
This guns ( large caliber big bore usually more powerfull than 45/70 ) have been made to suit a particolar hunt of dangerous game under tick cover in close quarter, used primely by ivory hunter early the last century, or to stop a lion, rhino or buf charge, the hunter relay on the heavy caliber and a fast follow up second shoot if needed, they are not made for distance shoot.
The reason of the high price tag a part of the cosmetic work, is the intense labor required to make each one fire accurately both barrel on the target at a given distance with the prescribe cartridge.
Te only way to perform this task is by spot solderin the barrel to a prescribed angle and fire at the range, then back to the shop and modify the angle and back to the range... this operation is repeated many time till satisfactory results are acheive, only then both barrel are solder to the full lenght.
It tooke up to several months to make one of this guns, and it still do.
We cannot compare a rifle like the Baikal to rifles like Merkel, Purdey, Gibs, Rigby or Holland it would by like comparing a Llada to a Mercedes to say the list.
However if the rifle still appeal to you by all means go get one and enjoy it.
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  #18  
Old 04-23-2009, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikenz View Post
I don;t need one but I am soooo tempted given the usual pricing for a double rifle.

That is what I was thinking. I dont need a double but for that price, I was willing to look long and hard at one.
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  #19  
Old 05-01-2009, 03:40 PM
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ozyredneck - I have a 45/70 Baikal side by side, and really like it. If you want a double just to have a double (like me), but don't want to spent the family fortune on it, then get one of these. Don't listen to all the BS from the guys that can afford the best of everything, it gets old.
I bought this gun knowing it was not going to be a high quality, high dollar gun. It shoots just fine, and is so darn fun to shoot. The metal to wood fitting is not the best, nor are the triggers, but I knew they wouldn't be before I bought it.
The gun is only rated to 31,000psi so you can't load it real hot, but at that pressure range you can still load it quite a bit above factory ammo if you shoot the 405gr bullets like I do.
The barrels regulate just fine, and if you reload, you can get even better groups by playing around with the velocity a bit. I fully plan on using this gun in the hunting field. No, not in Africa like some say the 45/70 is suited, but for deer, pigs, black bear, and elk in the thick.
I'm shooting about three inch groups from both barrels combined at 75yds. That is plenty good for the kind of hunting I will be using it for.
If you want one, get one and enjoy it. Just know, it will not be a $10,000 gun. But, it will be just as fun to shoot and enjoy.

Last edited by Abner; 05-01-2009 at 06:26 PM.
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  #20  
Old 05-01-2009, 04:05 PM
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My neighbor is apparently getting one in 45-70, and his brother in 375 H&H (I think). He fired one in 45-70 at 50 yards and said one barrel was right on, the other barrel 10" off, but related that they do have a screw regulation adjustment. It sounds like fun to me, on the cheap, but fun regardless.
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