Shooters Forum banner

Advice on First Rifle

7K views 48 replies 27 participants last post by  Delta raven 
#1 ·
Hey everybody,

I'm looking at buying a rifle "Im dead broke so it will be in a few months Im thinking" and have it cut down to 3 choices I believe. I have been racking my brain reading the history and features of brands, types, actions, ect. These are the 3 Im looking at for my first ever rifle "Which I plan to use for large game hunting, targeting, and defending our country/constituion from envasion/marshal law". I am pretty dead set on 30-06, bolt action, center fire rifles. These are the 3 I was looking at, and in order of what I THINK I want/need.

1. Remington 700 SPS Tactical ....... 30-06 = $550.00

2. Winchester Model 70 Ultimate Shadow ....... 30-06 = $749.00

3. Stevens Model 200 ........ 30-06 = $339.65

I would prefer a heavier rifle for the low recoil. I wouldnt mind carrying a heavy rifle through West Texas. It needs to have a long range and a punch to it "Think Oaudad". I would want a longer barrel for the accuracy. Lastly, being this is my first and only for a long time to come, "Im lower class income wise... if even that high :)", I need a rifle that can stand the test of time and be used for many purposes.

QUESTION:
1. Am I right to choose the Remington out of these 3 for my needs?

2. Is the extra $200 dollars per rifle going to be noticabley an upgrade?

3. Are there any major faults you people would have against any of these guns?


Thanks for any responses ahead of time and God bless those of you who are Oath Keepers!
 
See less See more
#2 ·
You have 3 good choices there, but the Remington has a 26" heavy barrel, where as the other two have 24" standard barrels. In the standard barrel realm, I would go with a Ruger Hawkeye.

But you can't go wrong with any of the ones you have listed. I would put the Winchester on the bottom of my list though. Atleast give the Ruger's a look see.
 
#3 ·
.30-06 is never a bad choice when looking for a hunting rifle. Ammunition is everywhere. Personally, I would pick a "sporter weight", but that's just me. I'm still using a 1903 Springfield I customized back in the 60's ... and I'm in my 60's.

Rifle choice is pretty much up to you ... whatever you happen to like. I've owned Rugers and Winchesters and Remingtons. All are fine actions. I've owned push feeds and controlled round feeds. Accuracy was always exemplary. Reliability was too.

You might even find what you're looking for in a Pawn Shop or even a gun shop. Go figure. I once bought a M70 Winchester in .30-06 that was prewar. And THAT was from a Pawn Shop.

I also took an oath ... though it may not be the oath you're talkin' about. I took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. I don't recall it having an expiration date.
 
#4 ·
You never mentioned anything about optic option. If you needed that also then a good quality optic plus the Stevens still comes in below the Remington alone. Barska, Tasco, Simmons, Swift, NuStar and others are not my opinion of good quality scopes. Stay with the leaders -- Nikon, Bushnell, Leopold or Burris both for quality and service after the sale.
 
#5 · (Edited)
I'd ditch the Stevens and get a Marlin XL-7 in 30'06 over the other guns. Do a little research and you'll see that the Marlin will shoot with or surpass most guns at half the price. My gun consistantly shoots less than .75" with 165 gr bullets and puts 180s into less than .5".

The Marlin's have an easily ajustable trigger, pillar bedding, fluted bolt, good recoil pad, only weigh 6.5pounds, and cost $300 or less in the black Synthetic stock model. The Stevens has none of those features and isn't even worth considering, and I doubt the winchester or remington will shoot better. You can buy one heck of a nice scope for your '06 with the cost savings by getting a Marlin.
 
#7 ·
These are the 3 I was looking at, and in order of what I THINK I want/need.

1. Remington 700 SPS Tactical ....... 30-06 = $550.00

2. Winchester Model 70 Ultimate Shadow ....... 30-06 = $749.00

3. Stevens Model 200 ........ 30-06 = $339.65


QUESTION:
1. Am I right to choose the Remington out of these 3 for my needs?

2. Is the extra $200 dollars per rifle going to be noticabley an upgrade?

3. Are there any major faults you people would have against any of these guns?

I would suggest actually picking up and handling each of these rifles. If you have done that, and the Remington 700 honestly feels the best to you, go for it. .30-06 is an awesome caliber, and have killed thousands upon thousands of big game animals all over the world.

In most cases, it seems price doesn't actually reflect the true value of firearms anymore. This of course depends what you're using the gun for, but for your average hunting situation, establish your budget (make sure it's absolutely the most you can/will spend), and make sure your gun falls into that area with, as mentioned, your optics.

The only fault I can see in any of those guns is that none of them are in my gun cabinet. If they were really all that smart, that's precisely where they should be!
 
#10 ·
For whats its worth...Go with what you can afford to buy...All 3 are good choices and I have always been a fan of savage rifles...With the Stevens you will still have a few bucks left over to get a decent scope if needed....I have always been a believer in getting what you want and can afford..You can always up grade in another year or so...Good luck with your choice...John
 
#11 ·
I think in most cases you get what you pay for if you a smart shopper. I have an eye for quality in machining, fit, and overall production of something. Alot of people do not. Sometimes you may not notice the additional money you have spent until you go to sell or trade it in. If you don't have alot of money to invest, buy the lower grade, but don't expect much in return. It will get you shooting or hunting whatever the case may be and that is what's important. We used to have an old saying in the gun store and please don't let it offend anyone; "Friends don't let friends buy Mossbergs" Funny thing is I owned a couple!:eek:
 
#12 · (Edited)
The fact is that none of the rifles you list would be a bad choice. In practical terms, one may be more accurate than another, but that will be on a purely individual basis -- in other words, no one with a lick of sense or experience will claim "X model of rifle will always shoot better than Y model". Many of the most accurate rifles I've ever found were inexpensive ones.

My opinions: $200 will buy a lot of ammo and/or reloading components. You would not be going far astray to buy the least expensive (I like the Marlin, too, a bit more than the Stevens, but the Stevens product is a good basic rifle), and spend the leftover funds on ammo. Proper practice makes perfect.

Long. heavy barrels are no guarantee of accuracy. In fact I suspect that, barrel-for-barrel, you'd be hard-pressed to show that long/heavy barrels are on average any more accurate than short/light ones. A long/heavy will, usually, "hang" better than a short/light in unsupported shooting while standing, making it easier to steady up for a freehand shot -- but freehand unsuppported shots are best reserved in hunting for rare occasions when no sort of support is possible. One big advantage the short/light will always have over a long/heavy is ease of carry. If your hunting involves walking 100 yards to a treestand, the long/heavy will work fine; but if you are carrying that telephone pole for any period of time, or maneuvering in tight brush, you will end the day cursing it as a millstone.

Now, my favorite deerstalking rifle has a 24" heavy barrel -- but as it is a Brown Model 97D falling-block single-shot, it is no longer than, and about the same weight as, a .30-30 carbine -- the best of both worlds.
 
#13 ·
If you are willing to spend $750 on the Winchester then before you "pull the trigger" I would advise you to at least pick up a Browning A-bolt stalker and look it over. They can be had blued or stainless. If you luck out you could find one in a used rack. Also take a look at the X-bolts.

That said, if you are going to buy a $750 rifle just to turn around and skimp on the scope choice I would advise against that. As much as it pains me I would recommend buying the Remington and using the $200+ you'll save and throw it into your optics if thats the route you'd go.
 
#15 ·
Damaged_1,

I was in your position about 15 years ago, where I wanted to buy a gun real bad but just didn't have the money, so I did what one of the previous posters suggested; I went to several pawn shops and looked at the used guns in the gun stores. Eventually I found a Model 70 Featherweight (post-64) in 25-'06 for $350, with a 6x-24x scope. I had to remove a little wood in the tip of the fore-end to get it to shoot well, but there's no doubt it was worth every penny I spent on it. Don't be afraid of buying a used gun because the vast majority of them are in great working condition and will serve you well for many years.
 
#17 ·
Some good advice to check the used racks, especially after the season is over. Almost any cartridge with a similar size/shape as the .30-06 will work fine..... ie, .308, .270, etc., etc., etc. Put them all to the shoulder and see what works best.

Good luck with your search.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Thanks everyone of you for the advise. It seems I have even MORE to research heh heh. My buddy is also looking for his first rifle and was hung up on a lever action until he went to Cabelas in Austin and found a Used Winchester 70 for 450. He said he fell in love with it at the store but obviously hasnt shot it yet.

He had mentioned that tha BAR is available in a semi-auto now and was wondering if that bad boy would be worth anything on the hunting department.

Optics I have NO idea on. I havent even began to look really Found 1 I liked for 150 but it said it was for an AR-15 and Im not sure if I would even be able to attach it to a normal rifle. Said scope I checked out I wanted souly because I liked one of the lens options on it. I know little to nothing on range and curve of bullets though.

http://www.valhallaarmory.com/4x32_Ultimate_AR_15_Scope_p/st432g-ult.htm

A friend of mine was trying to talk me into a Marlin and I just get a bad feeling about it. A friend of mine is a Sheriff in Bourne, Texas and he owns a Marlin. I havent talked to him on how it isfor him yet. First thing tomorrow Im going to hit up some pawn shops and see what I can find there. So far I have definately decided not to get the Stevens :)

OH. If I buy used, are there any things to look at ? I was worried that the inside rifling would be messed up or I would somehow get a rifle that would only work a few times before some covered up detail was revealed.
 
#21 ·
OH. If I buy used, are there any things to look at ? I was worried that the inside rifling would be messed up or I would somehow get a rifle that would only work a few times before some covered up detail was revealed.
First thing to note is that the vast majority of the common centerfire deer rifles will never see enough rounds through them for the barrel to be "shot out" or the action to be really sloppy. What you need to be concerned with is obvious signs of neglect. This will be fairly easy to spot on the exterior of the gun, but what you mentioned above is what you really want to pay attention to. Fortunately, most gun shops or pawn shops won't take in a used gun unless THEY have checked the bore and found it to be good to excellent; they want to be able to sell the thing! Still, there is a way for you to check it, yourself.

If the gun is a bolt action, which is what most of the guys on here are going to recommend for a 30-'06, ask the dealer to remove the bolt. Hold the gun up to your eye so you can look through the breech (where the bolt was) and point the gun directly at the brightest light in the shop. If you wear glasses, make sure you have them on! ;) Look critically at the grooves between the rifling lands for ANY signs of pitting/corrosion/rust, etc. Rotate the gun a little, each way, to get different angles of light on the bore. Inspect the lands (raised rifling) and specifically, the edges of them, looking for a nice, crisp edge between the land and the groove. Turn the gun around and do the same from the barrel end...it will be more difficult, but the area most likely to show damage will be out toward the muzzle end of the gun. Cant the gun slightly at various angles, letting in more or less light, as you perform these steps, to get different aspects of shadow and brightness. If the shine from the bore simply blinds you, from both ends, and you can't find any imperfections, you're probably looking at a gun that is worth what the shop owner is asking.

Examine the hole where the bullet comes out of the barrel, called the "crown". If you have a soft cotton rag, wipe it across the crown and try to slip a corner of it into the barrel, to detect any obvious snags...it's very unlikely you'll find one, in a good used rifle. If, by some oddity, you do, politely ask to see a different rifle.

Presuming the bore and crown are acceptable, ask the shop owner to put the bolt back in the gun and ask him if it's OK for you to cycle the action a few times. If so, work the bolt several times in a controlled fashion, not too quickly, but not "gently" either. After this, pull the bolt back halfway and wiggle it up and down, side-to-side...see if there is much slop in the action. Do the same thing with the bolt all the way to the rear in the action. There should be only a little bit of wiggle in the bolt at any one position in its movement. If it sounds and moves like you're stirring the creamer in a coffee cup, better pass on that one! :D

Odds are, you could look at 50 bolt-action, centerfire '06 rifles, made in the last 50 years, and not find a problem with any of them. Guns are made for things to explode...INSIDE OF THEM! As such, they are made of pretty stern stuff and with just a modicum of care, will last a very long time. My daughter harvested her first deer this fall with a 65 year-old Model 92 Winchester and my first deer was taken with a (then) 40 year-old 7.7 Jap rifle, left over from WWII. I took that old beast out of the closet last summer and shot a 1.5" group at 100 yards! Point being, if it was made well to begin with, as most '06 rifles are/were, a used rifle is probably just barely broken in.

Good luck in your search and please do report back with what you find and how it shoots!

Jason
 
#19 ·
If it makes you feel better, all of my rifles but one were bought used and still shoot amazing groups.

For a scope that is sturdy, and wont break the bank, check the Bushnell Trophy. I have one on a .300 Win Mag and it's having no trouble at all.

The scope you linked to, appears to be a fixed 4 power, but try to find you a 3-9x40 atleast. Wal-Mart sells some scopes called Center Point, and it is a 4-16x44 with illuminated recticles for $69.95. Some guys have gave great reports on them, plus a .30-06 don't recoil very bad.

Here is a Ruger M77 MkII All Weather in .30-06 for $498
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=150532031
 
#20 ·
>He had mentioned that tha BAR is available in a semi-auto now and was wondering if that bad boy would be worth anything on the hunting department.

If you are referring to the military Browning Automatic Rifle, I'd say you'd be disappointed with it as a hunting rifle. It weighs 16 to 24 pounds, depending on which version you choose, and is 4 feet long.

Now the Browning BAR, the sporting rifle, is an entirely different critter.
 
#22 ·
Most of the guns I have purchased in my lifetime were used. I actually preferred them at one time. There is something kind of neat about a nice weapon that has the slight used look to it. I am not talking about rust or scratches in the wood or mistreatment and neglect, but where the bluing has a slight worn look to it around the sharp egdes, etc. These nicely kept used weapons all have a story to tell and it's neat to imagine where they have been, who they were passed down to, what they have shot, and who will end up with them after you are gone.
 
#24 ·
I think that's good advice about pawn shops and Walmart. Gun shops in my area want way too much for used guns. Thing about WalMart if you're buying new, they can order just about anything from any major manufacturer and their prices will beat anyone out there except maybe the very high-volume sporting goods stores.
 
#25 ·
Never bought a weapon from a pawn shop but I would imagine the mark-ups would be horrendous. I worked in a gun store for a year as a part time job (never brought home a paycheck) and one thing I learned there is that their mark up is double what they payed for it. They look in the blue book and offer half or less (depending on how desparate you look) to poor souls looking to sell their guns. With that in mind it has always been my expirience to make an offer on anything used, especially guns. Whether a gun show or a gunshop, don't be shy about making offers. Also if you frequent certain shops you'll notice how long a particular gun sets on the shelf. These guys want to move product so throw out an offer on something you have been eye-balling for a while.
 
#26 · (Edited)
I had great luck at pawn shops, and I had bad luck. The good part of the bad luck was he took it back and refunded the money.

The bad deal was on a Winchester 30-06 that wouldn't shoot for beans. I looked it over really close (at home) and found that one of the screw holes for the front sight had been drilled completely into the bore!

The good one was a Ruger Compact 243 I bought this fall. Last year I bought the identical gun in 260, new, and it cost close to $800 after buying a scope. The used one, with scope, was $300. Practicing with the used one, I put 10 shots out of ten into a 3 inch square, lefthanded, with no sandbag, at 100 yards. Killed two deer with one shot each this November.

I look for used guns with lots of dust and perhaps a little very light surface rust in the tight places between wood and metal. Often this means that the previous owner very seldom used it, and it just sat in the closet or gun room. If it was loiled well inside, and the bolt functions smoothly, it could be practically new condition once cleaned up.

As for scope, if you're on a budget, I recommend getting a lower-end model from a company that makes really good stuff. Nikon Prostaff, Leupold Rifleman, Burris Fullfield, etc. In Bushnell, or any man for that matter, I wouldn't go below $125. I once bought the most expensive model from a lower-end manufacturer, and it was worse than a waste of money, becasue it cost me a good buck when the scope failed to hold zero.
 
#27 ·
Man ha ha, I came to the right place to ask these questions. Im desperately looking through our storage for items I can sell to grab something soon :D. Im am most certain Im going for a used gun now. From what you all said, especially jason's "how to check" I feel pretty confident about being able to find any errors in one. I DID hit up an academy down the street and 1 pawn shop. The Pawn shop had no '06's and the Academy of course has new ones, but I had not yet read some of these posts so... I should be going to a few more shops.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top