Hello All,

I am kind of new to this forum but I've been a gun fanatic all my life. I have a special love for Winchester model 70 rifles and I have owned several but never a Pre 64 model. Yesterday i purchased a 1954 model 70 featherweight rifle on Gun Broker. The model 70 rifles I have owned and hunted with were all early to mid 1970's era push feed rifles and I have always loved these guns. What can expect to be different in the way the bolt operation feels, accuracy, and overall other differences in this 1954 rifle I just purchased? This example is chambered in .308 Win and is completely original with original aluminum butt plate, 22" barrel, original sling and a Baltur 2 1/2 power scope that is externally adjusted. Any information you may have on this style and age rifle would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Kix

I am sure that you will do well with your new rifle. All the best...
Gil

that has to be a very early production 308... cool!

I owned the exact same gun until about a year ago, or so. I bought a 1954 M70 Featherweight/.308 from a well known dealer perhaps 10 yrs ago. I hunted one year with it, topped with a period Redfield 2.75(?) scope but never killed a deer with it. Mine was simply too perfect for me to feel comfy with taking it into the woods any more. I listed it for $1625. on Guns America and sold it for 100% of it's list price in two days. I bought a M98 custom rifle in .257 Roberts with the proceeds. It will hunt!

The pre '64 model 70 is one of my very favorite rifles ever produced. One i own in 30/06 (1954) is simply the smoothest action of any rifle I've ever owned (lots). The Featherweight version with 22" barrel, and aluminum bottom metal is my favorite version of that great rifle. I still own a Featherweight version in .270 Win, Jack's favorite rifle.

You have gotten yourself a true treasure and I am more than sure you will enjoy that rifle for as long as you can hold it! (Have you set it down yet??..LOL)

You do have a prize no doubt! Yep, it just doesn't really get any better than a model 70 Winchester with all the Bells N Whistles installed at the factory. "The rifleman's rifle" you betcha. Congrats to you sir.

Thanks to all for the nice comments and great information!

TN Hunter,
If your model 70 Featherweight brought that much money I must have made a really good deal on this one. I paid $865.00 for it including the original sling and the 2 1/2 power Baltur scope and mount. Geez! I knew that the pre 64 model 70's carry some significant collector value but I'm really surprised that they bring that kind of money. Are the featherweight versions more popular than the standard models? Do they bring more money? The one I bought can be seen here:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=182780005

It hasn't arrived yet, I just paid for it today. The serial number is 2909xx. When did the Featherweight 308 production begin??? The seller says that it came out of an estate and has had that scope and mount on it since the 50's. Do any of you have any idea what that scope and mount might be worth? It was made by Bausch & Lomb and I've been told that the mount is more valuable than the scope. Any information would be helpful.

I live in Albuquerque, NM and I plan to use this rifle to hunt elk, pronghorn antelope and mule deer. I have an early 1970's Winchester model 70 XTR in .308 that I have been using. It is a EXCELLENT rifle and I am considering selling it, but I will HATE to see it go. I grew up hunting white tail deer in South Texas using my Father's early 1970's model 70 in 25-06. It is still one of the finest deer rifles I have ever had the honor to shoot...an absolute one hole shooter at 100 yards and dime sized groups at 200 yards. Truly an astonishing rifle. I'm hoping that this pre-64 rifle will be as good.

Thanks again for all the great information and nice comments!

Kix

The pre '64 Winchester Model 70 "Featherweight" I owned was also a .308 and was made around 1960. It was a great rifle but I glass bedded it so it would be more accurate. Also mounted a Redfield scope on it in Redfield's one piece mount with medium rings.

The pre-64 model 70 Winchesters are beautiful rifles and I'm certain that you will love yours. I have a late 1980's or early 1990's Lightweight model 70 in 7x57mm and it's a nice rifle but not as nice as the pre-64 models. Mine does shoot though.... VERY accurate!

I'll mention this, although it's likely you already know it: The pre-64 model 70 rifles have a full length Mauser-type claw extractor. It's a "controlled feed" action and the cartridges must be fed from the magazine in order for the claw to engage the case rim. Do not try to load it by laying a cartridge on the follower and pushing the bolt forward. The extractor is not designed to override the rim and may break. The push-feed models are OK to do that way but not the claw extractor models.

I'd say you did very well with your purchase. I've seen many with pads added (bad!) go for as much as that. Mine was what I would call (did call) 99%+ on condition, looking like it just came out of the box. It was simply too nice for me to use. The value rose about $500. in 8 yrs or so I owned it. I believe the first year of production for the .308 F/W was 1952 (1st year for .308 anywhere). Something not all know is that the .308 and 30/06 families used the same action back then. There was no S/A model 70 for the .308 / .243 back then.

Part of the reason your scope and especially the mount are so sought after by collectors is that the mount is what's used to adjust the scope (sight in the rifle), thus the scope is basically worthless without the mount and the mount more valuable that the scope, seperately. It will be up to you as to whether you leave the period scope on top. Some would call you crazy (me as well) for doing so, but I simply think an older rifle simply looks better with an older scope on top. My 1952 wears that Lyman All American and my 1960 .270 F/W wears a 20+ year old Burris 4X, because it just looks right (and Jack liked his 4X too...lol).

I will leave a link here of a place that specializes in pre '64s and has some excellent pictures of what the "originals" look like. No pads on anything but magnum calibers, the couple different types of sights and stock designs they used, etc.


http://daverifflegunsales.com.phtemp.com/70.htm

One of the nice things about spending the money on a pre 64 is that you shouldn't lose money if you ever decide to resell. That can't be said for just about any modern bolt action out there. I think you bought it right. too.

Thank you TNHunter,

That is great information and I appreciate it. Also thanks to everyone else for your information and nice comments!
So, this will be a long action .308 eh? Interesting. It's funny but after doing some research on the scope I think I will most likely leave it alone if it is clear and sharp optically. I kind of like the look of period scopes on older rifles...they just look "right" to me.

Thanks again!

Kix

I have been collecting these for years and have great admiration for them. Accuracy is usually quite good with them. They are big game rifle however so pinpoint accuracy isnt nessasary. I regularly get 1 1/4" groups at 100 yards with mine. While newer rifles are capable of greater accuracy, their quality is nowhere close to that of old Winchesers. It always makes me scratch my head when a purchasers only criterias for purchase is inexpensive and accuracy. I would much prefer a mauser 98 or old model 70 that has only 2" accuracy yet is utterly reliable and bulletproof to a new stamped tin, potmetal cast, and plastic new gun with 1/2" grouping.

Kix,
Whatever you do don't sell it. Take it out and shoot it and hunt with it.
Life is short you might as well enjoy it.

Zeke

I intend to do exactly what you suggest. I bought the gun to use and enjoy.

Kix

QUOTE:

I would much prefer a mauser 98 or old model 70 that has only 2" accuracy yet is utterly reliable and bulletproof to a new stamped tin, potmetal cast, and plastic new gun with 1/2" grouping.
END QUOTE

Amen to that, I could not agree more!!

I completely agree with you 3030remchester. Those new stamped tin and plastic rifles you mention might be capable of 1/2" groups when they are new, but what about after 50-60 years of hard use in the field? Plastic has a nasty habit of deteriorating and becoming brittle over years of exposure to heat and cold. Cast pot metal will fail on you when you least expect it, usually at the worst possible moment. Centerfire rifles with components made from these materials do not inspire me with confidence. The rifles you mentioned, the 98 Mauser and the Pre-64 Winchester model 70 are made with quality materials and workmanship on tried and true high quality designs. If cared for, they will last several lifetimes and perform reliably and accurately throughout their useful life.
If you buy a new rifle on todays market you have to buy a custom rifle to get this kind of quality and you will have a much thinner wallet after having done so. A good condition solid pre-64 Winchester model 70, 52, 61 or Remington 40X, 37, 700 and many other vintage models are a HUGE bargain in the gun buying world today. It amazes me that there are still a significant number of people who fail to see this and will spend sizable sums of money on a new pot metal and plastic part rifle but turn up their noses at a classic used rifle like the model 70. I don't understand this logic at all.

Kix

The Pre-'64 Model 70 Winchester is, without doubt, a classic quality rifle and if one came to me at a decent price, I'd jump on it. I also agree that the level of workmanship exceeds most of today's offerings, especially if the rifle is made in the US.

OTOH, I can still buy an all-steel and walnut CZ-550 American rifle in 30-06, .270, .308 etc for less than $750 out the door. The quality of workmanship and materials is excellent and I'd be severely disappointed if it was more than a MOA shooter once I'd worked up my loads. It will have very nice walnut, 18lpi checkering and classic American lines. IMO, it's what the Model 70 was before 1964 and at a reasonable price.

It's good to know that new, all steel, excellent quality rifles are still avaiable at a reasonable price. I have never owned a CZ rifle, but I have heard many good things about them.

Kix

Not trying to turn this into a pi$$in' match and I understand everyone likes what they like. I own 3 CZ rifles, all of them NIB (when I got them) two are CZ 550 FS rifles in 6.5x55 and 9.3x62. The other is a CZ 527 in .223. They are very nice rifles and are quality made firearms in today's marketplace. Their fit, finish and bolt smoothness cannot compare with the M70 IMO, especially the pre '64 version. Both my CZs are good enough shooters with the medium bore outshooting the 6.5 believe it or not and giving sub MOA groups. Bolt smoothness, however, is not even close to a CRF M70, even a newer version. I also owned an early Kimber 84M in .308(NIB). It was never what I'd call a great shooter, but shot well enough. It's fit, finish and bolt smoothness were not as good as an older M70 Featherweight Classic I also own(7/08). It moved out eventually, allowing me to buy one of the CZs. Not a thing wrong with any of the rifles I mentioned and I'm simply relaying my personal experience in owning them.

There are a LOT of quality manufactured older rifles out there produced by Mauser, Husqvarna, FNH, Winchester, Browning, Sako, etc that will last two more lifetimes, even being 50+ yrs old now. I'd simply recommend shooters and hunters take the time to examine some of these fine older bolt rifles, assembled back when workmanship was formost on makers' minds and accomplished in a manner that simply cannot be done today at under 2 grand, IMHO. I also own a good number of Ruger and Remington rifles, etc., which I like, or wouldn't own. They do not impress me near as much, however, as the older finely made bolt rifles I happen to own from years past.

Well put TN Hunter!

As you said everyone has their own personal likes and dislikes and finding what works best for you is really what matters most. For me, the bolt smoothness and quality that you mentioned and other seemingly small things add up to what I call the "IT" factor. Certain vintage guns just have a special charisma that is rarely equaled in newer guns. Often I can't put my finger on exactly what this is. Sometimes I pick up a rifle and I just instantly know if it appeals to me or not. It's not something that is always visible, just a special feel. Some have it, some don't. I think 3030Remchester hit the nail on the head...I'd rather shoot a vintage rifle with the "IT" factor and get 2" groups than a newer rifle that doesn't feel right and shoot one ragged hole. When I am hunting and the action is slow, I will invariably admire my rifle. The look of the wood, the patina that comes with years of carry in the field, the nick in the stock from a memorable hunt many years before, etc. These are the magical aspects of a vintage rifle that I admire and enjoy.

Kix