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  #21  
Old 09-16-2010, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bird Dog II View Post
I agree that the .338 Federal is probably a nice round. But like the .30 T/C, what does it give you that a .30-06 doesn't? The .325 does represent a step up.
I bought a Ruger Hawkeye SS in .338 Fed when they first came out. Nice rifle, good trigger and shot sub MOA out of the box with 200gr Fusion (read that inexpensive) loads. I happen to be a fan of mediums and own a number of them from that .338 to a .375Win. I simply like the added frontal area they provide and my experience is that they seem to hit "harder" than the .30 cals. I would have to agree, however that with deer and even black bear the larger bore size and bullet weight is not necessarily needed, but again, I happen to like it. For the record, if I could only have one medium, it would be the .35 Whelen.

I also own a .325WSM in a BLR and like it a lot. It does pack a pretty heavy recoil in that 7lb rifle, however. Pretty much nearly on a par with my 7lb BLR in .450. The .325/BLR is handy and nice to carry and I even find myself carrying it for deer hunting, simply feels that good in hand to me. It is most definately a step up from the .338 and '06. Given the choice, I'd own the .338F over an '06 (180-210gr factory loads). The 180gr .338F leaves the muzzle at well over 100FPS faster than a typical '06/180gr (2830 vs 2700FPS) and outperforms it downrage as well, having a longer MPBR. The .338F/180gr actually matches the 165gr '06 load in MPBR. The larger 210gr .338F is head and shoulders above the venerable '06/220gr in everything save SD, but I'd still choose that NP bullet and added frontal area if faced with big teeth and claws at close range or elk and moose at long range.

The .325 is simply in another class ballistics-wise and a simple scrutiny of any ballistics table will show you just how close to a .338WM it is. Save for big bears, I'd prefer it for anything else in N.A. and when BB were on the menu, I want something bigger than the .338WM, personally. In a rifle that tamed recoil a bit better the .325WSM would make a very good all-around gun (IMHO) for a handloader, especially.
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  #22  
Old 09-16-2010, 08:17 AM
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^^ very good read. Thanks for posting. I agree, though. If I didn't already have a nice shooting .30-06, I'd be all over the .338Fed (and I may eventually get a barrel for it anyway ). Checking at midwayusa, the .338F has been gaining a few factory load options (a good sign). The .358Win is also interesting but I'd pretty much have to be a reloader it to really make good use of it, it seems.
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  #23  
Old 09-16-2010, 08:19 AM
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Does anyone know if the 325WSM can be loaded down, safely, and to what extent? By that I mean, could you create a reduced load for it that emulated the 8mm/06 or even milder? I'm just curious if you could make this a great option for the one-gun big game hunter, by creating lower recoil loads for deer hunting?
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  #24  
Old 09-16-2010, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broom_jm View Post
Does anyone know if the 325WSM can be loaded down, safely, and to what extent? By that I mean, could you create a reduced load for it that emulated the 8mm/06 or even milder? I'm just curious if you could make this a great option for the one-gun big game hunter, by creating lower recoil loads for deer hunting?
Well Hodogon has a starter load with a 150 gr bullet with H4831 at 2945fps. Similarly they list one starting with IMR 4831 at 2960fps.

They also list several 180gr loads with starting data in the 2750fps range.

That sounds like 8mm-06 territory to me and these would kill any deer on the planet. Does that work for ya?

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
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  #25  
Old 09-16-2010, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shane256 View Post
^^ very good read. Thanks for posting. I agree, though. If I didn't already have a nice shooting .30-06, I'd be all over the .338Fed (and I may eventually get a barrel for it anyway ). Checking at midwayusa, the .338F has been gaining a few factory load options (a good sign). The .358Win is also interesting but I'd pretty much have to be a reloader it to really make good use of it, it seems.
Thanks. I also own two .358 Wins, a BLR and Ruger Hawkeye. If you do not handload, I also agree the .338F is likely a better choice. If you were to succomb to the desire to own a .358 there are a couple of places that do load for it and have pretty reasonable prices for a typical 200gr loading. I recently used a 250gr/Speer GS load on a hunt (unfortunately I did not shoot a critter with it) and will likely leave it so sighted through deer season with that load now. I reckon it might be enuff for a deer...lol.
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  #26  
Old 09-16-2010, 09:37 AM
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I also have a 358 Win, in a BLR! Great round and really like it as a total rifle/cartridge combo. Very light in the hands and carries very well. Plus, the 358 Win with a 225gr Spitzer at 2400FPS is nothing to really scoff at. Trajectory is plenty to take 300 yards shots on big game and 35 cals are just awesome to me. I also have a 35 Whelen in a M700CDL. One of my favorite all time big game rifles. It is truly a sleeper of the cartridge world. Scotty
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  #27  
Old 09-16-2010, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bird Dog II View Post
Well Hodogon has a starter load with a 150 gr bullet with H4831 at 2945fps. Similarly they list one starting with IMR 4831 at 2960fps.

They also list several 180gr loads with starting data in the 2750fps range.

That sounds like 8mm-06 territory to me and these would kill any deer on the planet. Does that work for ya?

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
Well, that's what I was asking about, but I guess I should have been more specific. What I'm really wondering is can the 325WSM case be used to create reduced recoil loads, to make it a mild, easy-shooting gun for woods ranges...a la the 35 Remington or 30/30 Winchester? I'm not sure if the 325WSM brass is pliable enough to pull that off with. I've heard it's a very thick case wall that doesn't seal well unless the pressures are fairly high. That's what I'm driving at, really.
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  #28  
Old 09-16-2010, 03:51 PM
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As I mentioned in my previous post, there are some recipes that must be very easy shooters as far as the .325 goes. Hornady lists a couple loads with 150 grain bullets at 2800 fps, which is the high end of the loads they list for a .308 with a 150 grain bullet - probably very similar recoil to a moderate .308 load.
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  #29  
Old 09-16-2010, 05:13 PM
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Not to be contrary, but a 150gr bullet going 2800fps out of a 308 is not really "moderate"...it's within 100fps, or so, of maximum. I'd like to see a 325WSM shoot a 180gr bullet at around 2400fps, for a comfortable, low recoil woods round.
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  #30  
Old 09-16-2010, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broom_jm View Post
Not to be contrary, but a 150gr bullet going 2800fps out of a 308 is not really "moderate"...it's within 100fps, or so, of maximum. I'd like to see a 325WSM shoot a 180gr bullet at around 2400fps, for a comfortable, low recoil woods round.
I think it is possible. Hodagon has .300WSM data using 4895. They also have reduced loads with Trail Boss in .300WSM, .300 Win and .375H&H. This tells me it is likely very doable for the .325 as well and would yield .35 Rem type results. You might have to write them to get the data. If Trail Boss is usable in .308 bores and .375 bores, it should be fine in 8mm.

Uncle Nick would be who I would ask also. I bet he could give you a mild 8x57 load that would be safe in the big case.
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Last edited by Bird Dog II; 09-16-2010 at 06:36 PM.
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  #31  
Old 09-16-2010, 06:38 PM
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Yes it would be at the higher end of the pressure range as I mentioned, but a 150 grain .308 bullet in the upper level pressures would still be in the moderate range for recoil in a .308. IMO the higher end of the recoil range for the .308 is when you start pushing the 180 or 200 grain bullets in the higher pressure loads.
The Hornady Handbook also lists some 170 grain recipes at 2600 that are about as close as you'll get to your "low recoil woods round" with it. But for me the 7X57 takes care of situations where I need those specifications. The .338 Federal has a few loads with 180 grain bullets down in the 2400 fps range if you just want a larger diameter bullet. But 180 grains at 2400 is easy to get from a plain old .308, and most big game hunters would agree that the .308 is one of the lighter recoiling calibers available.
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  #32  
Old 09-17-2010, 03:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Yes it would be at the higher end of the pressure range as I mentioned, but a 150 grain .308 bullet in the upper level pressures would still be in the moderate range for recoil in a .308. IMO the higher end of the recoil range for the .308 is when you start pushing the 180 or 200 grain bullets in the higher pressure loads.
The Hornady Handbook also lists some 170 grain recipes at 2600 that are about as close as you'll get to your "low recoil woods round" with it. But for me the 7X57 takes care of situations where I need those specifications. The .338 Federal has a few loads with 180 grain bullets down in the 2400 fps range if you just want a larger diameter bullet. But 180 grains at 2400 is easy to get from a plain old .308, and most big game hunters would agree that the .308 is one of the lighter recoiling calibers available.
OK, I see what you're saying about that 308 load being of moderate recoil, for that cartridge, but you're still missing my point.

Hodgdon has a complete listing of reduced recoil "youth" loads, using H4895 and light-for-caliber bullets that still perform well, at lower velocity. My question has to do with the 325WSM case... and it's ability, or INability, to seal the chamber with reduced-power loads. My concern is that the case is just too heavily constructed to expand under lower pressures and won't seal properly, resulting in gas blow-back and blackened cases.

I guess there's really only one way to find out...I'll send the folks at Hodgdon an email and see what they say!
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  #33  
Old 09-17-2010, 04:42 AM
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There is ample data out there using cast bullets for what you seek. Check Lyman's 49th Edition.
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  #34  
Old 09-17-2010, 07:37 AM
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I can not see loading the 325 down really that much , unless you want to shoot the gun alot at the range and still save your shoulder .As for hunting , then just get a smaller calipier in the first place . Who needs a V 8 in a riding lawn tractor to cut grass?You got that 325 WM for that power , and now want it to be a 30/30??
If you can not afford two rifle's then maybe maybe settle for one in 3006 which can almost do everthing , and a lot cheaper to feed.
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  #35  
Old 09-17-2010, 12:26 PM
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Well I see what he wants to do (and he has plenty of guns already of all sizes, so a smaller caliber is not an issue). But if he can get the .325 down to mild 8x57mm levels, it won't be overkill for woodland deer and you still have a big Elk rifle for the wide open spaces. Very doable IMO.
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  #36  
Old 09-17-2010, 12:35 PM
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I was actually wondering a similar thing about the .338 Win Mag... could it be easily downloaded to something like .338 Fed performance or maybe even a little lower (between .338 Fed and .35 Rem)
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  #37  
Old 09-17-2010, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Harry Snippe View Post
I can not see loading the 325 down really that much , unless you want to shoot the gun alot at the range and still save your shoulder .As for hunting , then just get a smaller calipier in the first place . Who needs a V 8 in a riding lawn tractor to cut grass?You got that 325 WM for that power , and now want it to be a 30/30??
If you can not afford two rifle's then maybe maybe settle for one in 3006 which can almost do everthing , and a lot cheaper to feed.
This is mostly hypothetical, Harry, but to answer a couple of your questions:

I don't want a 325WSM to a be a 30/30, I want it to perform like one, if that's how I load it. Are you suggesting any gun that isn't loaded to its maximum power is not being used properly?

I can afford a "couple" rifles and already own two in 30-'06. For one of them I have created "youth" loads using 125gr NBT's and H4895 powder. They are similar in performance to mild loads from a 300 Savage, and consequently, kick a good deal less than full-throttle '06 loads. I did this because my wife really likes the rifle and since she flat refuses to shoot at a deer past 100 yards (she says you might as well call the butcher n' have him send over a side of beef, if you're not going to hunt closer than that!) I needed a load that was powerful enough for shorter ranges and yet, didn't beat her up with recoil. I was successful with creating an ideal load for this rifle/cartridge/shooter and that has made me look at my bigger rifles with a different eye.

I have always liked the 8mm size and if there was a way to adjust the load to the situation, you could maybe use the 325WSM for everything bigger than a ground hog and smaller than a grizzly, and not suffer undo recoil when at the lower end of that power spectrum. Talk to any handloader with a 45LC carbine or a 45/70 rifle...they'll explain how diversity can be a very cool thing, when it comes to rolling your own.
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  #38  
Old 09-17-2010, 06:57 PM
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Broom Jim
I understand what your doing it is just that I would use a rifle more for what it was intended . By that- a less powerful cartridge more suited for the game .
Yes I have downloaded the 45/70 myself for the range and loaded it up again for hunting . It saved my shoulder to get used to the gun, but also then I needed to make changes to the sites then prove it with the heaverier loading before the hunt . Much easier to grab the 35 Rem set up for deer .
Then I can otherwise grab the 300 Wm for that moose in the open. It is set up to do that .
It saves bring the wrong ammo some time , as when you use the same case for two loadingings somewhere they are going to get mixed up.( Don't ASK !! )
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  #39  
Old 09-17-2010, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by broom_jm View Post
OK, I see what you're saying about that 308 load being of moderate recoil, for that cartridge, but you're still missing my point.

Hodgdon has a complete listing of reduced recoil "youth" loads, using H4895 and light-for-caliber bullets that still perform well, at lower velocity. My question has to do with the 325WSM case... and it's ability, or INability, to seal the chamber with reduced-power loads. My concern is that the case is just too heavily constructed to expand under lower pressures and won't seal properly, resulting in gas blow-back and blackened cases.

I guess there's really only one way to find out...I'll send the folks at Hodgdon an email and see what they say!

Jim, when I tried min loads for my wife to shoot my .325, the cases were not sealing. I was getting a lot of blow back, the neck and shoulders of the cases would be completely black. I was using 180gr Nosler BT's.


Shane, I have my .338 Win Mag shooting .60-.70" 3 shot groups with a 225gr bullet at 2667. Maybe not as low as .338 Fed level, but I know it's plenty for whitetail so I havent tweaked on it more.
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Last edited by Tang; 09-17-2010 at 07:34 PM.
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  #40  
Old 09-17-2010, 09:15 PM
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You can also use reduced loads in the 338 Win Mag, just use the starting loads and the lighter end of the bullet weights. Not sure with the 325, never loaded for it. I am planning to do the same thing for my 338. I have a bunch of 180gr BT's for the 338 and would like to load it so my wife and son could shoot it. I am not sure how much you can reduce the loads in such a big case and still get god ignition and accuracy, but I will find out once I am home. Scotty
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