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  #1  
Old 08-02-2011, 12:13 PM
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Long range 300 win mag?????


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I was wondering what the absolute best 300 win mag is for at or around $1500 I want to do some serious long range shooting (beyond 800 yds.), any and all suggestions are appreciated, thanks.
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  #2  
Old 08-02-2011, 03:16 PM
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Remington's Sendero SFII. Mines in 300RUM, but I've heard the 300WM is very accurate.

RJ
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  #3  
Old 08-03-2011, 09:19 AM
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This is a chocolate/ vanilla question.
In my experience, any heavy barreled, properly bedded action will easily handle 800 yards.
The thing that makes or breaks you is case prep/ load consistency.

I have a Savage 10fp in .308, bone stock other than an ultimate sniper stock, that consistenly shoots 7" at 1,000. That is IIFF I am incredibly meticulous with my loads, and trigger control.
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Old 08-03-2011, 08:05 PM
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Dont want to rain on your parade, but if you want to shoot seriously at 800+ yards your going to need to spend more money on glass than you're limiting yourself to spending on just the rifle.....That said, recoil junky's suggestion is a good one as are the Savage target line for your price range.
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  #5  
Old 08-04-2011, 07:22 AM
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Sir/Gents,

Excellent input thus far. Like the heavy barrelled field piece guns, as much for the conventional reasons to have a heavy barrel, but also a gun that is muzzle heavy does settle better on target. My Sendero was the first issue, and not nearly as pretty as RJ's.

Glass is important, as mentioned. Out to 800 you'll have to dope, so clearness, consistancy, but also ease of adjustment is important.

I personally like the idea of a heavy 30 for this task, although 800 yards is just doable with the 308s if properly fixated. The reason a larger 30 catches my eye is that its capable of handling heavier bullets, which are easier to dope and less prone to give you any wobble way, way out there. You'll need to match your bullet weight to the twist, of course, but I'd start heavier than 168 and work upwards from there. Sierra offers bullets as heavy as 240 grains, although I think rifles twisted for it are not factory propisitions.

One advantage of the 308 is that it has been there and done that, and there are reams of data to compare it against. The 300 WM is catching up, the military started using these for the reasons articulated above, and they are building useful references in quantity. That said, don't get frustrated, your rig and loads will have to matched by practice, and his is a time consuming process. I've owned my Sendero for 16 years, (7RM) and I'm still working this out. It is a fine and plesant misery.

My best to you Sir.

Steve
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  #6  
Old 08-06-2011, 05:23 PM
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I have a Lam. Stock Sendero in 300WM that is amazing for a fact. rifle
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  #7  
Old 08-07-2011, 04:51 AM
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Well there are several pluses and minuses to consider. First of all the 300 Win Mag holds the 1000 yrd any sight record at Camp Perry and has so for over ten years. Minus sides: The brass is expensive and barrel life is short (approximately 500 rounds). The rifle that set the record did so with a Ray Steele chamber from Dave Manson. There is much more than just maker and caliber selection to achieving a outstanding long range rifle as is pointed out above.

A good scope is critical and this is not based on name brand but scope performance as you have to be confident in your adjustments repeating and this is easily determined in about 10 rounds and is done by shooting a 3 shot group at 200 yard or 300 yards. After shooting three shots crank up 20 clicks, right 20 click, down 20 clicks and left 20 clicks and shoot another round. The fourth shot should be within the first 3. Next click 20 left, 20 down, 20 right and 20 up and shoot again. Continue this until you do the 20 drill in all four quadrants. If the scope is on the money you will have your answer.

At 1000 yards a 100 fps variation in velocity will give you a group 40" high. Thusly a 50 fps will give you 20" and so on. You need to be able to produce ammo that has an extreme spread of around 25 fps and preferrably 10 fps. (Hint: weighing each charge is only the first of multiple steps to achieve this)

Assuming you have that you need to have the technique that will enable you to achieve consistant aiming and shot let off every time.

You need to be able to read mirage and know what to do in the wind because any felt wind will move your point of impact a minute or better. If the wind is brisk 3 to four minutes (Minute is about 10" at 1000 yards).

Range determination is absolutely critical. You have to have a ranging device that will give you accurate readings within 5 yards. For instance when a long range shooter goes from 600 to 800 yards with 308/30.06 first thing he does in crank up 10 minutes or 40 clicks. From 800 to 900 20 clicks and from 900 to 1000 24 clicks and this is just a rough estimate as shooting in extreme weather differences and elevation will really do it to you.

For instance back in 70s one year I won 3 of the 4 1000 yard matches at Oak Ridge,Tennessee so one would think I had a good zero right? I went to Camp Perry and had not touched the sights and I wasn't on paper the first shot at 1000 and the target is 6'X6'.

I would recommend you take a two gun approach. First is get a 308 or 30.06 heavy barrel and perfect your load development and skills in reading the wind, good technique etc. The Sierra 175 gr. MK bullet is the standard bullet for the M24 Sniper Rifle. Acceptance on this ammo (if I remember correctly) is 10" horizontal spread and 20" vertical spread at 1000 yards. But if you do your part you can reduce this to around six inches.

As indicated 300 WM holds the record but if I am not mistaken 6.5X284 has won everything at 1000 yards at Perry for years now. It has a much flatter trajectory with Sierra 142MK (and there are other excellent bullets i.e. Berger etc) If you load this to 2985 fps you should achieve a flatter trajectory. I would recommend Quick Load program as an initial investment. Brass for the 6.5X284 is very expensive as well.

Finally there is a more affordable combo and you can achieve this and shoot more for less money. For instance you could obtain a Rem 700, Mod 70 Win, Savage etc in hunting rifle configuration and rebarrel it to 308 Win for your training. A 308 barrel will hold up for 3500 to near on 10,000 rounds if you get a good barrel to start with. The magums are getting iffy at 500 rounds and the 6.5X284 has about a 700 round life but there is a cheaper 6.5 to be had. 6.5X06 A Square which is a 30.06 case necked down to 6.5MM. It has same propellant capacity as does the 6.5X284 but brass is far more affordable. My first choice for such a project would be Mod 70 Winchester long action that had a previous life as 270, 280, 30.06 etc.

Again load development is critical and RL22 will put you in the sweet spot for 142 which is 2975 to 3000 fps. Below that the next sweet spot is 2675 to 2700 fps. This could be achieved both ways. Your initial chambering could be for 260 Rem and then move up to 6.5X06.

I just barreled up four of them in last two weeks for myself and friends as we are going to do a test series. I have chambered them with a custom dimension 6.5X06 AS which calls for a very tight neck, and turned necks on cases and a very small case body. Necking down 30.06 to 6.5 will give you about .294 neck dimension. When you clean up the necks with a neck turning tool they go down to .290-.291 range so I ordered my reamer with a .292 neck. Factory dimension is .299 neck. The case body was ordered at .2675 as new 30.06 cases are .465 on base. Fired cases come out of the gun at .466 so case life is expanded tremendously.

I have a 30.5" barrel shooting 50.3 gr. RL22. I can zero it for 600 yards and hold 23/24" low at 300 to 400 and achieve center hits.500 yards hold under 15" and 200 yards hold under 20" and 100 hold under 11". The come up from 600 to 1000 is only about 16 minutes.

Another consideration is recoil. A magnum is a punishing thing for a long string which is why I don't shoot mine any longer. The 6.5 is mild and about 1/5th the recoil. To make a 300 win mag comfortable the long range shooters rifles weigh about 16 pounds dressed out.

As others have pointed out there are lots of things to be considered to achieve top scores at 1000 yards and beyond that it gets worse. Shooting is kind of like stock car racing. Just because a Ford wins at Darlington doesn't mean you can go down to Ford dealer, buy one and be competitive with them. Last I heard the only thing used on a NASCAR unit and a family car is the hood. Then again they are not running ethenol gas either ! ! ! ! ! As well the average guy has never set in a car that will cruise at 200 much less driven that speed ! ! ! ! !

Hit me with a PM for further info if I can help.
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Last edited by Humpy; 08-07-2011 at 05:53 AM.
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  #8  
Old 08-11-2011, 02:26 PM
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my buddy runs a savage 111lrh with a sightron scope IN 300 win mag and shoots ragged holes at 100 yards and is pretty acurate at distance... it could be better but he runs 180gr federal factory ammo loaded with barnes tsx triple shocks... his whole rig is right at $2000 with gun, base, rings, and scope
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  #9  
Old 08-11-2011, 03:17 PM
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Many years ago [1995?] I owned a 300 winmag, mine was of the Browning A bolt flavor. Stainless with a BOSS system, it was very accurate, but that BOSS brake was horrendous on the shooter, and all on either sides. The rifle came with a shroud that could be spun on in place of the BOSS, but once shot with that BOSS in place, it really turned me off to the rifle. it was also wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too much gun for here in the north east. It was sold six months after purchase, and in it's place a Remington 700 BDL lefty in .308 was purchased.

I still have the .308, in fact, many .308's at this point. They shoot accurately [for me] out to 600, a distance that is range shooting only here in the north east. From 50 yards to [at very seldom times] 200 yards is the average shot here due to dense woodlands;
woodlands where guns like the 30-30, .35 Rem. and .45 colt carbines shine.

You might look at the Weatherby line;
they offer the Vanguard rifles at times for about $500, and that would allow you to purchase a nice scope, like a Zeiss conquest and ammo/dies all for your 1500.

Weatherby Vanguard bolt action 300 Winchester Mag $406.00 SHIPS FREE

Zeiss Conquest w/Z-Plex Reticle & Matte Finish

The Zeiss scope is about $600. Figure another $200 on a quality base/rings.
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Old 08-12-2011, 05:49 AM
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What type of terrain will you be hunting in? Open plains, or mountains? You going to be on a wheeler, or on foot? How heavy/light do you want the gun to be? Heavy barrels are better for long-distance, but if you're hiking in the mountains, you won't want a 12 lb rifle + scope + ammo + sling + bi-pod = 15 lbs. In that case, a medium contour barrel would be better.
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Old 08-22-2011, 02:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by recoil junky View Post


Remington's Sendero SFII. Mines in 300RUM, but I've heard the 300WM is very accurate.

RJ

I'll second that suggestion!

Sorry for going off topic (feel free to pm me recoil junky) hows the recoil on your .300 RUM I've herd the Sendero SFII handles the recoil very well, what's your opinion? (I keep flipping back and forth from the Sendero SFII in .300 WM and .300 RUM)
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Old 08-30-2011, 12:12 PM
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I have Savage FCP-K 300 win mag. Got a Mule deer at 680 yards ,coyote at 550 so I say 300 winmag is a great for the long range hunting, and like some one already said invest more on the scope




Last edited by atakacorp; 08-30-2011 at 01:27 PM.
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Old 08-30-2011, 03:22 PM
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Nice looking rifle atakacorp. lets see some groups

mr_tr, the recoil is less sharp than my 7 mag and less of a push than my 35 Whelan. It's a recoil all it's own, but not unpleasant.

RJ
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  #14  
Old 09-04-2011, 09:47 AM
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There is alot of reasons LR shooters are moving away from the 30 cal magnums to the 6.5mm (260rem), heres a good artical
The Case for .260 Remington: A Better Cartridge For Practical Long-Range Shooting
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  #15  
Old 09-15-2011, 03:31 PM
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338win mag

im thinking of buying a 338 win mag, encore pro hunter.Any 338 pros and cons,other than the obvious -reciol. I have not shouldered a 338,alyhough I have shot my buddys 300 win mag a few times.Is the recoil alot more than the 300? And does the Encore`s new recoil reducing stock really work?
CUZ.
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  #16  
Old 09-15-2011, 05:27 PM
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Dpends on what you want to shoot. For targets and nothing larger than antelope I like the 7mm Mag much better. I've never tried anything other than targets at ranges out to 1,200 yards be it's still more than accurate enough at that. This is also the outer limits of my optics,

As mentoned before, optics suited for that range are going to cost almost as much if not more than a good heavy barreled rifle that's capable of doing what you want.

I learned many years ago, it's dam hard to hit what you can't see.

6.5x284 is a great caliber, but to really be a great rifle at that range, a custom build is almost a must. You will need very hot loads, more so that most factory actions can handle and barrel life will get pretty short with those hotter loads.

Last edited by BKeith; 09-15-2011 at 05:32 PM.
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Old 09-17-2011, 03:33 AM
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I had a rifle just like RJ's, and I ran a Zeiss Conquest on mine. I didn't get out to 500+ yards with it, but it was an amazing rifle.
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