» Advanced

Go Back   Shooters Forum > Rifle and Rifle Cartridges > Rifles and Rifle Cartridges
Register FAQ Members List Donate Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-26-2012, 03:15 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 83
Winchester, making the 264 mag again!


Registered Users do not see the above ad.


I have been waiting and hoping for this day for three years. I really like mid bore calibers and the 264 has always intrigued me. Between my 25-06 and 270 roy I dont really need a 264 but **** it I want one. If anyone else is interested they will be available in the sporter, supergrade, featherweight, and one thats blued with a synthetic stock. just have to decide which one I want. That supergrade is purty.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-26-2012, 03:59 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: California
Posts: 791
Cabela's has a special run of Winchester Model 70 in 264 Mag with a 26 in barrel.Very pretty rifle.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-26-2012, 06:27 PM
264WM's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Loomis, WA
Posts: 376
Hallalujah winchester has finally seen the light.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-26-2012, 06:46 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 668
The 264 Win. Mag ....... Like a lightning bolt from the hammer of THOR !!!!!!!!! LOL HD1
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-26-2012, 07:11 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: California
Posts: 791
Ok do i really need 3, 264 Mags? NO but I do WANT a Winchester Model 70 to go with my Ruger M77 MKII and Remington 700 CDL I'll take the Sporter please.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-26-2012, 07:33 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Great Falls, Montana
Posts: 598
But you can't get a 260 Remington? Come on!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-26-2012, 08:09 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 83
I think the featherweight is out for me the sporter is only half a pound heavier. So now I just have to pick between three.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-26-2012, 08:10 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by 264WM View Post
Hallalujah winchester has finally seen the light.
Couldnt have said it better.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-26-2012, 08:36 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mooresville, IN
Posts: 8,839
No interest whatsoever.

If there was a dictionary of reloading terminology and you looked up the word "over-bore", you would find a picture of either a 220 Swift or a 264WM. I'm not saying the round isn't an effective long-range option, but you won't find one in my gun safe any time soon. If I want a small bullet going really fast, the 25-'06 is fast enough, and quite over-bore itself! If I want more power, I'll reach for a larger caliber.

But for you guys that love this old barrel-burner of a round, this must seem like Christmas.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-26-2012, 09:30 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 83
Its no more of a barrel burner than a 7mm mag. Its depends if you load it up or not.

Just curious I have heard the term over bore a couple times and I think its obvious what the term elludes to but what does the term over bore "actually mean?" Whats the definition.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-27-2012, 03:34 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mooresville, IN
Posts: 8,839
Actually, since the 7RM and 264WM have the exact same case capacity, but the 7 mag has a bore that is .020" larger, it is fairly simple math to conclude that IF the 7 mag is "over-bore", then the 264 is more of the same.

I think this website does as good a job as any, in quantifying the term "over-bore".

Defining “Overbore” Cartridges via Comparative Index Daily Bulletin

Also, if you're interested, I've created a simple spreadsheet listing quite a few cartridges, where I compare case capacity to the bore cross-section (expansion ratio, basically) and use these numbers to create an index that could be loosely interpreted as the relative "over-bore" number for a round. It is not unlike the chart listed in the website I mentioned above, although my effort was directed more at creating a comparative index for wildcat cartridges and which powders they might work best with.

Out of a list of 90 of the most popular rounds shot in America, the 264 WM comes in 5th highest, with the 7RM in 11th place. The way my little formula is set up, the lower the index number a cartridge has, the more it benefits from really slow-burning powders.

The 264 Win Mag is a cartridge, like the 25-'06, that didn't really come into its own until powders like 4831 became readily available. Now that we have powders that are even slower than that, these big-jugged, small-bore rounds can be put to better use...and without eroding the throat in 1,000 rounds or less.

Last edited by broom_jm; 01-27-2012 at 03:39 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-27-2012, 04:39 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 217
I want one just to turn it into my cat 270-264
but always loved the 264 balistics
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-27-2012, 04:44 AM
MikeG's Avatar
The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 27,031
I guess the 7RM is over bore, the .264 is over-over bore, and my .257 Weatherby is over-over-over bore!!!!
__________________
MikeG

Quote:
Originally Posted by faucettb
Welcome to the forum. Rules are simple, be nice and join in.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-27-2012, 05:54 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,930
Certainly the .264 is more overbore and burns barrels faster than the 7mm Mag. Like Broom, I am not sure what the point of that round is. They make a good antelope or mulie gun I guess. Personally, if I'm going to burn that much powder, I at least want to be able to push 160 grain slugs downrange. If you could get one with an extra long throat and fast twist rate and load vld bullets, it would make more sense.
__________________
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-27-2012, 06:15 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mooresville, IN
Posts: 8,839
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
I guess the 7RM is over bore, the .264 is over-over bore, and my .257 Weatherby is over-over-over bore!!!!
Mike, the 257 Weatherby has the 2nd lowest number on the index I created, so yes...IF there is such a thing as over-bore, the 257 Roy certainly fits the description!

However, Weatherby rifles have an ample amount of freebore which gives the bullet a running start at the rifling and probably helps reduce throat erosion, at least somewhat.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-27-2012, 06:54 AM
Darkker's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Mesa, Washington
Posts: 1,641
I built one years back. I never had any throat issues with mine...
That said I hope they don't put anything less than a 24" pipe on them, 22's give a really cool fireball however
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-27-2012, 07:17 AM
MZ5's Avatar
MZ5 MZ5 is offline
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 1,675
As I recall, Hatcher defined overbore as (very roughly, from memory) any cartridge for which there isn't a suitably-slow powder available at the time to make the cartridge/bullet combination operate satisfactorily. This included filling the case reasonably well, too, as I thought I recalled, so no cheating and putting 10 grains of Unique in a 264 Win Mag and calling it 'satisfactory.'

I like the 26-cals in theory/on paper. In reality, the 25s make me smile. Don't see a lot of reason to use a belted case, either. 264 WSSM or WSM might make sense, though.
__________________
"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have." --Gerald Ford
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-27-2012, 07:50 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 5,854
A quote from Hornady's handbook;

"There are no free lunches, however, and many 264 Winchester magnum owners quickly discovered the price for ultra high velocity is reduced barrel life. We burned out several barrels in developing the first data for the 264. The game hunter that only shoots a few dozen rounds a year will have no special problems, but an avid 264 shooter might."
"One significant reason the 7mm Remington Magnum so totally eclipsed the popularity of the 264 Winchester Magnum may well be that the 7mm is, or perceived to be, somewhat easier on barrels."
__________________
Still Learnin' as I go!

NRA Life Member
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-27-2012, 08:24 AM
dmsbandit's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,714
Quote:
Originally Posted by 264WM View Post
Hallalujah winchester has finally seen the light.
You mean Browning/FN don't you? Winchesters were made in Conn., went bankrupt, and the name was sold. The guns you buy today are not Winchesters.

From wikipedia

"Decline and FallBy the 1960s the cost of skilled labor was making it increasingly difficult to produce Winchester's classic designs profitably, incorporating as they did considerable hand-work. In particular, Winchester's flagship Model 12 pump shotgun and Model 70 bolt-action rifle with their machined forgings could no longer compete in price with Remington's cast-and-stamped 870 and 700. Accordingly S. K. Janson formed a new Winchester design group to advance the use of "modern" engineering design methods and manufacturing principles in gun design. The result was a new line of guns which replaced most of the older products in 1963–1964. Unfortunately the reaction of the shooting press and public was overwhelmingly negative: the popular verdict was that Winchester had sacrificed quality to the "cheapness experts,"[3] and market share continued to decline as Winchester was no longer considered to be a prestige brand. Gun collectors consider "post-64" Winchesters to be both less desirable and less valuable than their predecessors.

Labor costs continued to rise, and a prolonged and bitter strike in 1979–1980 convinced Olin that firearms could no longer be produced profitably in New Haven. Therefore in December 1980 the plant was sold to its employees, incorporated as the U.S. Repeating Arms Company, together with a licence to make Winchester arms. Olin retained the Winchester ammunition business.

When U.S. Repeating Arms went bankrupt in 1989 it was acquired by a French holding company, then sold to an arms making cartel sponsored by the Belgian Herstal Group, which also owns gun makers Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal (FN) and Browning Arms Company.

On January 16, 2006 U.S. Repeating Arms announced it was closing the New Haven, Connecticut, plant where Winchester rifles and shotguns were produced for 140 years.[4] Along with the closing of the plant, the Model 94 rifle (the descendant of the original Winchester rifle), Model 70 rifle and Model 1300 shotgun would be discontinued.

[edit] RevivalOn August 15, 2006, Olin Corporation, owner of the Winchester trademarks, announced that it had entered into a new license agreement with Browning[5] to make Winchester brand rifles and shotguns, though not at the closed Winchester plant in New Haven. The production of Model 1885 falling block action, Model 1892 and Model 1886 lever action rifles are produced under licensed agreement by Miroku Corp. of Japan and imported back to United States by Browning. [6]

In 2008 Fabrique Nationale announced that it would produce Model 70 rifles at its plant in Columbia, SC. In the summer of 2010 Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal (FN) resumed production of the Winchester model 1894 and the evolution of the Winchester 1300, now called the Winchester SXP. [7][8]
"
__________________
"I don't drink or smoke, I spend my money on gunpowder and gasoline."

Last edited by dmsbandit; 01-27-2012 at 08:26 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-27-2012, 10:15 AM
fritz1's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Idaho
Posts: 679
Why would they bring that obsolete barrle burrner back? It is one of the most over rated guns ever made, it does absolutely nothing that cant be done with a shorter, lighter 270.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Winchester Trails End .357 Mag X-man Winchester 94 Lever Guns 2 02-28-2013 12:28 PM
winchester model 70 325 short mag user Invader Rifles and Rifle Cartridges 82 10-01-2010 06:34 PM
New Winchester M92 Short Rifle in 44 Mag ironhead7544 Model 92's Winchester/Browning/Rossi/Navy Arms/LSI/Uberti 4 07-03-2010 11:55 AM
Ruger hawkeye 264 win mag mictlantecuhtli Rifles and Rifle Cartridges 6 11-25-2009 02:11 PM
Garage Gunsmith; extending the 444's magtube using 45/70's mag tube! Xer0 Gunsmithing 11 10-12-2008 01:06 AM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:15 AM.

< Contact Us - Shooters Forum - Archive >

 
 

All Content & Design Copyright © 1999-2002 Beartooth Bullets, All Rights Reserved
View Privacy Policy | Contact Webmaster | Legal Information
Website Design & Development By Exbabylon Internet Solutions
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2