» Advanced

Go Back   Shooters Forum > Rifle and Rifle Cartridges > Rifles and Rifle Cartridges
Register FAQ Members List Donate Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-02-2012, 05:58 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 175
M1 carbine Vs Universal M1 carbine?


Registered Users do not see the above ad.


Just saw a thread about a universal M1 Carbine. I have never heard of it before. Whats the difference between that and the M1 carbine?

The universal got a lot a bad reviews so I am assuming that manybe they are made differently because from what I know the M1 was a good gun
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-02-2012, 07:06 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mooresville, IN
Posts: 9,047
Universal was a manufacturer that built M1 Carbines. I own one. They are definitely not as good as the standard GI models. Mine jams a lot, unless you keep a lot of pressure on the magazine, holding it firmly into the action.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-02-2012, 06:42 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 175
wasnt the standard GI models built by Springfield or something?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-02-2012, 09:54 PM
Wrench Man's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Eugene Orygun
Posts: 887
There were MANY! manufacturers of the M1 Carbine rifle, including Winchester, here's a good place to brush up on them!
M1CarbineForum - Powered by ForumCo.com - The Forum Company

I have a first generation "UNIVERSAL" M1 carbine, it's just as good as any of the GI models!, in fact everything but the receiver, barrel and the stock are surplus GI parts, the bad rap comes from the 2nd and 3rd generation Universals, for some reason, probably manufacturing cost?, they changed a BUNCH! of the parts, and they did have some serious issues!
I have 2 30rnd magazines and two 15rnd magazines, both 30's and one of the 15's are GI issue, the second 15 is one of the current manufacture Korean imports, I have a fair amount of LC ball ammo on hand and all four magazines will operate as fast as you can pull the trigger, it has NEVER! once offered to jamb, the only issue I have is the the sights were never setup properly, the front needs filed down some, the rear sight must be set at the 300yrd mark to get it on paper! (and I don't care for a blade front with peeps)
Here's the place to brush up on the "UNIVERSAL"
M1CarbinesInc.com
__________________
ASE master certified engine machinist, gas & diesel
I drive
International's
Rambler's
Jeep's
& the Yamaha
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-03-2012, 04:10 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mooresville, IN
Posts: 9,047
IIRC, Universal was really just assembling parts, although maybe they tried actually manufacturing some, later on? So, the early stuff they built was out of mil-spec parts that they just put together. I guess I have one of their later models.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-04-2012, 01:24 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 538
Mine is an IBM. Can't envision the modern Big Blue making guns instead of computers. hehe
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-04-2012, 07:10 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Jefferson Parish (via N.O.)
Posts: 9,035
Owned several of them over the years, but there are differences and I doubt many GI parts would interchange.

Quality was variable...good ones worked as well as any, but some of them had feeding problems. Usually one of three things:
1.The extractor spring was often too strong...not enough travel for it to reliably snap onto the case, so it jams.
2.The trigger housings were cast metal (GIs are steel) and often not well formed..so the magazines didn't lock in quite right.
3.The gas piston was simpler than the GI guns (and not as good). It often fouled up, which killed semi-auto cycling.

They made a few odd ball ones on that action as well. Was a .256 Ferret model, which was the only other rifle in .256 I can think of besides the Marlin. The Vulcan was a manual pump action in .44mag, but could see the base of it was the same .30carbine action. My brother had the pistol version (Enforcer) that worked well...yeah, even back then, got odd looks at the range with that one.

To be honest, cannot remember if the versions sold under the Iver Johnson logo were Universals or if they were Plainfields...but know that a 9mm version was made.

Also made some in colors...sky blue and frog green...both were early experiments in Teflon coating guns. Had one of the frog green ones (not GI green...Kermit the Frog green) that might have been the ugliest gun I ever owned. But that one would cycle, shot great, and even oil would bead up and run off (and just like early frying pans, the Teflon soon abraded off).

Last edited by ribbonstone; 03-04-2012 at 07:13 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-05-2012, 04:53 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mooresville, IN
Posts: 9,047
Ribbonstone,

Was there a "fix" for item #2, that you listed above? I'm pretty sure that is what mine has and it's a real pain in the neck!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-05-2012, 05:58 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Jefferson Parish (via N.O.)
Posts: 9,035
OF the half dozen or so that passed through my hands, got them all running right except one that had a pot hole in the chamber (can't think of anything else to call it but a pot hole...not a dent, was a rough edged crater).

Usually the magazine locks in too low for sure feeding..oftn missing the case rim (OK...its rimless...but we'll call the back/top of the case the rim anyway) and ending up with a jam that has the bolt riding on the middle of the cases. Often, if you test fire while pushing on the bottom of the mag, they'll feed...take your hand away, and they'll jam.

IF that test works for you...then its probably the mag being held in place a touch too low.

The trigger housing is not held in place firmly..there is slack, and gravity/spring tension always pushes that slack down..so the mag ends up a bit lower than it should.

The latch that actually locks the mag in place is steel...but it runs in the Al housing and is often a sloppy fit. Again, that slop results in the mag being held low.

Two cures:
Solder and shim the actual mag latch to remove any slop in the system and jack the latch UP. Same trick can be done to the trigger housing attachments.

OR

Dedicate some mags to just that gun, and work on the mags locking area (again...working on jacking the mags up a bit).

...Did forget one. Plainfield marketed at least a few guns in the .22 SPITFIRE...which is a wildcat 22/30carbine.

Now back in the old days, the Plainfieds were nicer made guns...steel rather than Al. trigger housings and much closer to the GI design.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-06-2012, 07:40 PM
Combat Diver's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Afghanistan
Posts: 1,956
I've got a USGI Underwood that was used in the ETO, later by Bavaria (southern West Germany in the US sector) and last issued to the Austrian Gendarmerie (US sector) before being returned to CMP. So far its been a great shooter. Have also a EMF carbine that was has a commerical reciever, uses a cut down 1903A3 barrel and rest USGI parts. Did have a Universal for a short time that worked and was of the earlier production.

Additional info can be found here.

M1CarbinesInc.com
U.S. Carbines during the American Occupation

CD

ETA got the Underwood for the wife as her great uncle was David M. Williams, who designed the short gas system of the carbine for Winchester.

CD
__________________
De Oppresso Liber
Iraq: 91',03',04',05',06',08' & 09'
Afghanistan: 09',10', 11' & 14'
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-07-2012, 03:17 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mooresville, IN
Posts: 9,047
Quote:
Originally Posted by ribbonstone View Post
OF the half dozen or so that passed through my hands, got them all running right except one that had a pot hole in the chamber (can't think of anything else to call it but a pot hole...not a dent, was a rough edged crater).

Usually the magazine locks in too low for sure feeding..oftn missing the case rim (OK...its rimless...but we'll call the back/top of the case the rim anyway) and ending up with a jam that has the bolt riding on the middle of the cases. Often, if you test fire while pushing on the bottom of the mag, they'll feed...take your hand away, and they'll jam.

IF that test works for you...then its probably the mag being held in place a touch too low.

The trigger housing is not held in place firmly..there is slack, and gravity/spring tension always pushes that slack down..so the mag ends up a bit lower than it should.

The latch that actually locks the mag in place is steel...but it runs in the Al housing and is often a sloppy fit. Again, that slop results in the mag being held low.

Two cures:
Solder and shim the actual mag latch to remove any slop in the system and jack the latch UP. Same trick can be done to the trigger housing attachments.

OR

Dedicate some mags to just that gun, and work on the mags locking area (again...working on jacking the mags up a bit).

...Did forget one. Plainfield marketed at least a few guns in the .22 SPITFIRE...which is a wildcat 22/30carbine.

Now back in the old days, the Plainfieds were nicer made guns...steel rather than Al. trigger housings and much closer to the GI design.
That is EXACTLY how my gun operates! I basically have to shoot the thing with my left hand jamming the mag up into place, which will cause it to hardly ever jam. If I grip the forend, it will jam on every other round (when loading from the left side of the mag).

Of the two cures you mentioned, which would you recommend? I would be confident of my ability to modify the mags, but would want a good gunsmith to do any work on the action.

Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-07-2012, 06:00 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Jefferson Parish (via N.O.)
Posts: 9,035
Just learned to do the work myself...were not expensive guns back then, and thought they'd make a good learning project for me...so have no recommendation for a 'smith that would work on them (may be some...not aware of them if there are).

So I'd work on the cheap part and mods some mags to work. Understand, getting the slack out of the locking system would be better...but the fast way nwouold be to mod a a couple of mags...the bad news is that you really should be able to weld (an in this case, even the little propane/oxygen set up will work).

For various reasaons, would keep to the 15 round GI type mags (real ones...not the BS aftermarket mags). The 30's are harder to find, have had a lot of crappy after market mags made, and the results with the 15's have been SO MUCH better.

Basically just going to strip the mag until you just have the stamped seetl body...weld up the bottom of the "teats" that do the locking...and file/shape /polish them until they will just barely latch into place (as you added metal to the bottom of the teats, will end up loacking in place a bit higher).
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-08-2012, 01:47 AM
m141a's Avatar
Nawth East Moderatah
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Madison, NH.
Posts: 5,402
I own an S.G. Saginaw that dates to 1947.

Bought is sooooo many years ago in a small store in Vermont in a barrel full of carbines.

It shoots well, with never an issue. If it was not in such great shape and so collectable, it'd make a great trunk gun. My father owns a universal, with the steel perforated top forarm. It shoots, but has ALOT of stoppages.
__________________
Chris in NH.

"some days, I wish my dogs could talk"
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-08-2012, 05:34 AM
MikeG's Avatar
The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 27,193
Jason, for an experiment, you could try building up with solder and then fitting. It won't last long, but at least you'd know if it was the correct cure (before doing anything destructive). JB weld would probably be better yet.

Only mentioned that as welding thin gage sheet metal is a little tricky.
__________________
MikeG

Quote:
Originally Posted by faucettb
Welcome to the forum. Rules are simple, be nice and join in.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
$60.00 for any 1 day Dynamic Carbine Course (7+hrs training) from Guardian Angel PMC ~kev~ Forum Sponsors & Merchants 1 12-21-2011 04:50 AM
Need a scope for a pistol caliber carbine cajuntec Rifle, Shotgun and Handgun Scopes 15 04-29-2010 09:28 AM
1873 ('79) Trapdoor Sprg. Carbine JMC38 Single-Shot Rifles 1 03-07-2010 01:43 PM
A New 357 Rossi Carbine For My Stable COSteve Model 92's Winchester/Browning/Rossi/Navy Arms/LSI/Uberti 2 09-20-2009 10:32 AM
Questions ref loading .30 carbine Kermit Handloading Procedures/Practices 6 02-02-2008 02:09 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:14 AM.

< Contact Us - Shooters Forum - Archive >

 
 

All Content & Design Copyright © 1999-2002 Beartooth Bullets, All Rights Reserved
View Privacy Policy | Contact Webmaster | Legal Information
Website Design & Development By Exbabylon Internet Solutions
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2