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  #1  
Old 08-13-2012, 05:47 PM
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Older Model 700 270 vs. Newer Model 700 270


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After reading quite bit about the 700 and the accuracy and quality thing of the Remington 700's on several blogs, I thought I'd do some work at the range. About two years ago, maybe three I bought a couple of Remington 700's in 270 Winchester. (The cheapest 700's on Gunbroker at the time were 270's then perhaps 30-06's.) I wanted to re-barrel and maybe restock for a 35 Whelen and a second rifle would be a 9.3x62 or perhaps a 375 whelen, or still the 400 whelen. I wasn't sure about the second rifle and time slips away. So I have two 270's and their serial numbers don't seem to agree with the date codes. In fact one rifle doesn't seem to have a valid date code. I check with Remington, maybe tomorrow.

#1 700 has a K7 and a 18 stamped in front of the receiver across from the proof mark - serial number is 685xxxx it is the older of the two rifles.

#2 700 has a E6 and a CA stamped in fron of the receiver across from the proof mark - serial number is E649xxxx and I believe it is a much newer model.

Both rifles look to be in excellent condition, a couple of scratches under the fore arm of the newer rifle, probably due to the use of an improper hard rest. The older model has a darker and shinier blue. They have identical length barrels and have Leupold mounts. The new model has a cheap Tasco and the old one has a Bushnell -- each 3x-9x scopes. As far as the stock goes, I think the newer rifle has a nicer looking stock and I am not impressed with Remington's impressed checkering on the older model. The rifling on both rifles look to be in excellent shape -- neither one was evidently used for shooting varmints/prairie dogs and such.

Test #1
130 grain Speer Rem 9 1/2 primers and RE 22 58 grains (these loads are OK in my rifle. I am not recommending them for yours)

I have shot about 20 of these rounds through both of them. They shoot about 1.25 MOA each. Nothing to brag about, but OK I suppose. Both rifles shoot this load the same -- I was expecting the older one to do better than the new one.

I have also shot a couple of other loads through these rifles that look to be more promising using Hornady inter-lock bullets and H4831SC. (Make no bones about it -- I really like Hornady inter lock bullets on game and so far H4831SC is working out very well for me in other rifles.)

Before I took these out shooting, I checked for fore end pressure on the barrel. The newer model had required quite a bit more material removed than the older one. Then I glass bedded the actions with a method that works OK for me -- perhaps other/your methods are better. I used the action screws to align the action but I did not tighten the screws. Instead I used rubber bands (surgical) to hold the action on to the stock. I glass bedded around the screws and when it hardened, I drilled the screw holes out so that they were not taking any recoil. The acra-glass in this way seems to work as 'pillar' bedding. I am just trying this method out but so far it is working for me. On these two rifles I glass bedded about 3" in front of the action also. The fore end has clearance around the barrel. And I sealed the inside of the channel so that it wouldn't absorb moisture or at least the moisture level would not change as fast/much.

It may be a while, but after I move I hope to finish the test. But time moves on

Last edited by So Dakota; 08-13-2012 at 05:53 PM.
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  #2  
Old 08-14-2012, 04:21 AM
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I have an older (made in the early 80's) M700 ADL and it shoots lights out....though typically it shoots far better with 130 Sierra Pro Hunters or Hornady Interlocks than the Speers.

As far as RL22...it's, IME, one of the best powders for the 270 and I've shot several lbs of it in four 270's. Three of them are Remington 700s, all made in the 80s. If you have some on hand (or if its something you'd like to try) Try RL22 with either the 130 grn Sierra Pro Hunter or Hornady Interlock. Hornady's max is 61.3 and Sierra's is 58.2. I've acually shot a lot of the at up to 60.0 with no problems, but at the higher velocity, they can be explosive so not running them so hard makes them very effective for deer. Sierra also lists it as the most accurate powder in nearly every bullet they make, if that means something. The Hornady's shoot well in a wide range of charges (57.0-61.3 IIRC) and is a great bullet that is a little tougher than the Sierra. These combos have shot nearly the same in all the older 270 M700's I have.
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Old 08-14-2012, 09:44 AM
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Since I only use web based E-mail, I couldn't access Remington by E-mail. I called and the rifle that has the 685xxxx serial number was built Dec 1975. The one with the E649xxxx serial number was built Oct 1998. For those who have noticed a decline in quality in the newer Remington 700's, does this qualify as 'newer'?

The Remington lady was very friendly and helpful.

I should have added that the one built in 1998 was bedded very poorly as it arrived to me. That is the cut-out for the receiver was not exactly in line with the barrel. I had to open up the receiver stock cut-out to get things aligned before glass bedding. If this is what people are talking about when they say the quality has dropped -- I concur.

The other thing that I thought was peculiar was that the older Remington 700's bolt would fit in the newer rifle, but not vice versa. Years ago (60's), Remington had what was referred to as max-header bolts. These bolts had a different looking lug than the standard bolt. I've only seen one or two of these - they had a shallow v-groove running through the lug perpendicular to the bolt. I do not know how long Remington kept this practice. I remember one rifle with a max-header being a 600 model, I believe it was a 308. These max header bolts were used for when the chamber was cut too deep. The max header bolt moved the bolt face forward.

Neither of these 700 bolts looked like a max-header bolt.
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Old 08-14-2012, 02:22 PM
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I wouldn't consider 1998 a "newer" rifle, exactly. Cerberus Capital Management obtained Remington in 2007, and that is when I really started noticing a difference in their products. Cerberus needed to make Remington profitable again, and they did that by changing finishes, model availability, materials, labor costs, etc. They also bought Marlin firearms, and since production moved to Arkansas, you can see similar changes to the Marlin line.

Good or bad is for you to decide. I suppose it is better that the company stayed in business, right?
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Old 08-14-2012, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvc944 View Post
I think you are describing the anti-bind bolt introduced in the mid-70's. All of the older 700s have the old type bolt - no slot in the lug. The newer ones do have the newer slotted bolt. That would mean the older bolts can not be installed in the newer rifles, not vice-versa. I am totally unsure whether the new bolts go farther forward into the receiver. Gotta check on that.
No the slot for the anti bind is in the same plane as the bolt body. The max-header lugs had a shallow v-groove that was perpendicular to the bolt body. I've worked with a lot of Remingtons and owned that one 308 model 600 with the max header. I think I've seen another at a gun show. I think they stopped doing that probably in the 60's, but am not sure. Also I don't think there were any 600's with anti-bind bolts.

Last edited by So Dakota; 08-14-2012 at 02:52 PM.
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  #6  
Old 11-28-2012, 06:49 PM
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The Model 700's I own are "newer", I have not had any problems with any of them and they are very accurate for an"out of the box rifle".
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