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  • 3 Post By Confederate Ordnance

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  #1  
Old 06-08-2013, 06:01 PM
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Remington 700 classic 8x57


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Bought my buddy's. She's in great shape with less than 400 rounds through. Terrible( non-adjustable) trigger, 7lbs+,. But she seems to want to shoot. Get the barrel warm and point of impact shifts and groups open up. Am considering floating the barrel. My Savage 111 .270 is floated and is very accurate and consistent. Generally, how do 700's respond to floating? Also, I have to figure out something to do with the locking lug bearing. The right( lower) lug has an EXTREMELY rough bearing surface and the left( upper) lug shows only a sliver of contact. Headspace is very good and I'm thinking a light lap would get me into better shape without giving headsapace issues. Ideas? Thanks in advance. I REALLY like the 8x57 and hopefully I can get this Remmy in proper trim without too much trouble...
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Old 06-08-2013, 06:19 PM
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~ The trigger should be adjustable, but the screws may be under a layer of goop.
~ A factory stock can have some bumps in the finish on top of the pressure point, if so, then a bit of fitting may be needed. I would fit the pressure point first, then if that fails I would free-float.
~ Free-floating works well, but it is not a cure-all.
~ I wouldn't mess with the lugs at this point, there are other things to do that can have a larger influence on accuracy.

~~~

Info on group size, direction of movement, size of aiming point, distance to target...can all help in determining a course of action.

~~~

Congrats on the buy. I think that the 8x57 in a modern rifle is overlooked as a great combo.
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  #3  
Old 06-08-2013, 06:29 PM
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You can do some light lapping with the Remington "40-x" bore cleaner. Just did a Savage 110 tonight.

Cold-blue the back of the lugs so you can check progress. Apply a drop or so of the bore cleaner to the back of each lug, and give the bolt handle 100+ up and down cycles. Repeat as necessary.

Good luck.....
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  #4  
Old 06-08-2013, 06:31 PM
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Mainspring. Unfortunately there are no adjustment screws on this trigger assembly anywhere. As far as the poi shift. the group ( warm barrel) opens up by 1/4 to 1/3 greater than a cold tube and tends to drop an inch or so and sometimes more. Groups are shot at 100 yards at a 1 1/2 inch aim point. I've adjusted guard screw tension which has improved groups size , and poi shift but hasn't cured it. She's a good rifle in a great caliber. I feel the 8x57 properly loaded is one of if not the best non-magnum medium bores. It has better lighter bullet performance than the 338's and 35's and can keep up with them at lower pressures. Its kind of the 270 vs 30-06 debate for the over .30 crowd...
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Old 06-08-2013, 06:36 PM
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As mentioned by mainspring, the trigger should be fully adjustable, I never seen one that wasn't, but I guess there could always be a first.

I would also look at that pressure ring in the forearm to be the cause of the changing POI, but before messing the the stock, I would remove the scope, make sure all the base screws are tight. When putting it back on, double check you ring screws and put a dab of nail polish or super glue on each ring so it touches the scope and the ring, that way you see it, if it moves on you. I've got a 700, 270 with the same issue. I've already checked the mounting so I'm going to try another scope. The one on it is one of those chinese junker Simmons.
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Old 06-08-2013, 06:39 PM
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I'm a believer in free-floating barrels. If you want it to hit the same point of impact day after day - it needs to be free floated. If you don't care - then experiment with forend pressure all you like.

I have rifles that were free-floated more than ten years ago and they still hit to the same point of impact. For a hunting rifle, that is more important than the last quarter-inch of group size (my opinion).
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  #7  
Old 06-08-2013, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Confederate Ordnance View Post
As far as the poi shift. the group ( warm barrel) opens up by 1/4 to 1/3 greater than a cold tube and tends to drop an inch or so and sometimes more. Groups are shot at 100 yards at a 1 1/2 inch aim point.
~ If you're using a scope, then use a much much smaller aiming point, 1/4-1/2", smaller is usually better.
~ Impact lowering might indicate something else going on other than the pressure point, parallax, a high mounted scope maybe or a different cheek weld.
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Old 06-08-2013, 07:01 PM
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Well, I'm not sure if that was aimed at my post, but I think I said the pressure points could very well be the problem and didn't say anything about experimenting with them. I just said I would check the scope base and rings before messing with the stock. Too many times I've seen a bad scope mounting cause people to spend all kinds of time and money chasing everything else, just to finally find it was the scope or mounting the whole time. I've seen the pressure points in Remintons cause problems many times. Matter of fact, that's probably what's causing the problems I'm having with this 270, but I will try another scope first.

I've also seen free floating the barrel in Remintons walnut stocks make them shoot worse if all that was done was free floating the barrel. The action really needs to be properly bedded when free floating one.

Of course I'm not a professional gunsmith and can only base my experience on the large number of 700's I have and the ones I've made to shoot for friends over the years.

I also find it much more important for the first bullet be in the exact same hole as the first bullet the last time it was shot. That's why before I say one is finished, I take it out and shoot a couple of shots with it over several different trials, just to be sure the POI is always the same.

Last edited by BKeith; 06-08-2013 at 07:05 PM.
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  #9  
Old 06-08-2013, 07:07 PM
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Well, I'm not sure if that was aimed at my post, ...
Not me, sorry if I gave that impression.

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I've also seen free floating the barrel in Remingtons walnut stocks make them shoot worse if all that was done was free floating the barrel. The action really needs to be properly bedded when free floating one.
My experience also.
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  #10  
Old 06-09-2013, 12:55 AM
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Some of the adjustment screws are hard to get to and might not exactly be where you think it would. May be best to pull it out of the stock and then look. Some companies as T/C is doing, they are putting a blob of lock-tite on the adjustment screw and it won't budge. If not, then bite the bullet and get ya a Jewell or Timney, either one will satisfy what you need.
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  #11  
Old 06-09-2013, 10:02 AM
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CO,

Yes - And while your have it apart post some pics of the action screws area and the front pressure point.
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  #12  
Old 06-09-2013, 12:03 PM
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Mainspring and BKeith are both right.
Confirming my thought that an particular rifle and barrel may respond to tweaks, but another won't.
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  #13  
Old 06-09-2013, 01:34 PM
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Well I read a thread I found on another site on the trigger for the same gun, 700 Classic in 8mm Mauser. The guy that wrote this has the same gun and said after the lawsuit all the springs were changed and it was impossible to even get a 3lb trigger and still be safe so he bought a Shilen and it's been fine since.
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  #14  
Old 06-11-2013, 02:36 PM
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Bought my favorite hunting rifle, a 700 in 30-06, 42 years back. Still shoots sub MOA to this day. Bought same in .243 to become a varmint hunter. It would not put 3 shots in a washtub at 100 yards. I read an article which indicated that Remington's inletting machine did not always place the pressure bump in the center of the barrel channel. Sure enough, mine was located at about 4:30. Five minutes with a barrel inletting rasp solved the problem, and made that 243 shoot better than I could, or can.
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  #15  
Old 06-11-2013, 08:12 PM
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Heating probs ?

I shoot a Mod. 600 in 308 & have never seen a bad Rem. trigger.
I would bed the action & float the barrel, your warm barrel--bad group thing sounds more like barrel fouling. One of my coyote guns did the same thing and I would have sworn it was clean "enough".
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  #16  
Old 06-12-2013, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
I'm a believer in free-floating barrels. If you want it to hit the same point of impact day after day - it needs to be free floated. If you don't care - then experiment with forend pressure all you like.

I have rifles that were free-floated more than ten years ago and they still hit to the same point of impact. For a hunting rifle, that is more important than the last quarter-inch of group size (my opinion).
Yep, my Ruger 77MKII 223 wouldnt shoot to my standards till I freefloated the barrel and did some trigger work on it, now she is a sweet heart.
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  #17  
Old 06-12-2013, 05:44 AM
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8x57

When rem first came out with this rifle they only made it for one year . it was there classic it did not seem to sell well at first . I saw them often in gun shops , I picked up a couple and had one made into 8mm06 , Great shooter a little sharp on recoil but better than the Mags. Good rifle.
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  #18  
Old 06-12-2013, 07:35 AM
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To get accuracy out of a 700 I'd do as many have already mentioned above.
1. check scope mounts. (group size and group location)
2. free float and glass bed the action. If you're unfamilair with glass bedding have someone who knows how to do it right show you. I also like having the action screws surrounded by glass taking care that the screws are not touching the glass. Some people use aluminum tubes around the screws (pillar bedding), but I find that drilling the screw holes out before glass bedding and then using a smaller drill so that the screws are not used as recoil lugs works as well for me as the aluminum pillar bedding. By having the pillar bedding done to your rifle the effect of tightening the screw to a different torque will be minimized. However, if you want to be even more careful, you could use a torque wrench that is measuring in inch pounds to tighten your screws the same each time might be helpful. Poor bedding and uneven pressure on the barrel will affect the loacation of the group and group size.
3. check the bore. Is there signs of copper being left in the bore (green cleaning patches etc.) If there is, you might think about polishing the bore with some of the methods mentioned in other posts such as lapping the bore. Also when you run cleaning patches down the bore, is there places where it is harder to push the patch? If so then you may have places where the bore is rough or tight. Dirty fouled bore often will increase group size.
4. Get that trigger pull down low enough that you are comfortable with it. All my 700's have a trigger pull that is less than 3 lb. I don't recall what year the 8mm came out. There were a couple of years that had lockable (with a key) sers. These rifles had the poorest 700 triggers for adjusting. I've bought used 700 triggers at gun shows and they usually are not expensive. If you don't mind spending the bucks get after market triggers. All but one of my 700's have factory triggers and they all have adjustment screws albeit they came from the factory with a glob of thread lock -- the earliest Remington 700's had a punched screw that locked it in place rather than the thread lock, I believe. The only after market trigger I have on one of my 700's is the worst trigger I have on any of them. Having a heavy trigger makes it more difficult to shoot small groups and if you've shot a bit of rounds down range fatigue will multiply the problem. I prefer under 3 lb, little if any trigger over travel and I like the break to be crisp. You choose the trigger pull that suits you. The triggers on the 700's I have all have three screws, engagement, back pressure spring, and total trigger movement. I adjust the engagement so that it will never go off accidently even if the bolt is slammed closed very hard, same with the spring pressure, The total movement should be set so that the trigger always lets the sear go, but limits over-travel.
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  #19  
Old 06-18-2013, 04:12 AM
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Thanks for the responses. After closer examination I managed to find the trigger adjustment screws. Remington filled the holes/heads so well it looked like solid metal. Went probing with a pin to find them. Anyway, I've got her down to 3lbs and all is well on that front.
I adjusted the guard screw tension and the change in accuracy and point of impact consistency was immediate and outstanding. Note to self; don't crank hard on Remington guard screws!
Shot some groups at 2 and 300 yards with a decently accurate load ( 150gr Hornady @2750 fps) and was rather shocked to get 3 rounders in the 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 inch range at 200 and between 2 1/2 and 3 inches at 300. can't wait to get more H4895( and 4064) and fling some 180 Noslers and 195 gr Hornadys! I LIKE my 700 8x57! Bring on the critters!
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