
02-29-2004, 07:09 PM
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Unknown Mauser I just bought need info
I picked this rifle up today at a pawn shop and i can't find anything on eht internet or anywhere that can help me know about this rifle It is a Mauser on the side of the rifle it says Modelo Argentino 1909 it is a 30-06 with a nichols light scope it doesn't appear to be old it is relativley new in shape and condition it has a black wood stock (appears to be wood) and a blued barrel with a unfinished bolt it is a bolt action as well please if anyone can help I would appreciate it.
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02-29-2004, 08:01 PM
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The Troll Whisperer (Moderator)
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The action of the rifle is the 1889 designed Argentine Mauser, and was manufactured in 1909, in the 7.65x53mm cartridge. The distinctive profile of this action is the protruding single-stack magazine in front of the trigger guard.
It has been rebarreled and chambered for the 30-06 cartridge and tapped for scope mounts. The stock has either been customized and painted black or has been replaced with the present stock. It is an older military bolt action rifle that has been customized into a sporter configuration.
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02-29-2004, 09:21 PM
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ok but one question it doesn't have a magazine just a drop out plate in front of the trigger guard is that probably a modification also?
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03-01-2004, 06:44 AM
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There were 2 Argentine Mausers.....
The earlier one 1891 (?), I think, that had a single stack magazine that protruded from the stock.
The later one was a 1909 model, built on the Mauser 98 pattern, that had a flush magazine with a hinged floorplate, like a modern sporter rifle.
That's what you have.
Both were chambered 7.65x53, which is an excellent cartridge, similar to a 308.
Now, yours may have been rebarreled or rechambered......
If the barrel smoothly tapers from chamber to muzzle, it is most likely a civilian barrel put on at the time the rifle was sporterized.
If the barrel has parallel surfaces and steps at intervals to reduce the diameter from chamber to muzzle, it is likely the original military barrel.
Why is this important? Because the original 7.65x53 cartridge used a .311 bullet, not the .308 bullet the 30-06 uses. Not uncommon for someone to ream the chamber of the military barrel to 30-06 and let it go at that. There's nothing unsafe about doing that, but you end up shooting .308 bullets down a .311 bore. May shoot decently, or may not.
If it looks like a sporter barrel, sounds like you have a nice rifle. Enjoy it.
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03-01-2004, 10:33 PM
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Jack is exactly right. My very first centerfire rifle (30-something years ago!) was a 1909 Argentine Mauser in 7.65x53. I "sporterized" it, and despite my hacksaw and grinder barrel bobbing, it shot pretty well. If it turns out that you have one of the rechambered military rifles, there is a simple solution to shooting your "31-'06". Replace the sizer ball in your .30-'06 dies with a .311 ball, and size normally. The neck will come out enough larger to seat .311 or .312 bullets, and your seater die should work ok. Standard loading data can be used -- the case capacity hasn't changed, and the Mauser 98 is **** for stout anyway. Any normal, reasonable load will work, and the proper size bullets will advance the cause of accuracy greatly.
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03-02-2004, 04:11 AM
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The 1909 Argentine Mauser was made both in Germany and later in Argentina, the German models being the better finished but neither were anything to throw rocks at. The 1909, in my opinion was the culmination of the best of all military Mausers. It has a hinged floorplate like the commercial Mausers except they left the button release in the trigger bow flush so that a magazine of cartridges wouldn't be dumped by an accidental nudge from the trigger finger on recoil. Like most military Mausers, the Argentine had a case hardened bolt and almost no hardening of the receiver (most will be lucky to register 20 on the Rockwell "C" scale). I have had up to eight of them at any given time to convert to custom rifles until I decided that they weren't worth all the time you had to spend to alter the bolt handle, heat treat and true the receivers. I decided that I would stick to commercial actions. The 7.65 X 53 Belgian/Argentine cartridge is close to the .308 in power but uses .311-.313 diameter bullets. It will do well on anything up to Elk size non-dangerous game and is pleasant to shoot. If all you want to do is put on a Ramline stock, remove the iron sights, drill and tap for a scope and bend the bolt handle, it makes a great, inexpensive sporter. Brass can made from 8 M/M Mauser and .30-06 cases, 8 M/M being better from the standpoint of not having to trim so much off and better case capacity. Norma used to, maybe still makes the brass but it is hard to come by and expensive. I know I was long-winded but I hope I gave you some useful info.
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03-02-2004, 06:32 AM
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Jack,Muledeer,and Masterrifleman have pretty much covered the bases.
The 1909 Argentine and (as I recall) the 1909 Peruvian Mausers were the best finished early '98's made.
The one I have is marked "deutsche waffen-und munitionsfabriken berlin" which means "German Arms and Ammunition Co.,Berlin.These are often referred to as "DWM".
The 98 Mauser action design may be the best and safest bolt action design ever.
The negatives are a slow lock time and undesirable heat treatment for todays modern high-intensity cartridges.Most Mauser actions are relatively soft as Masterrifleman stated and I'm not sure I'd want one that had been re-heat-treated.A "soft" action may stretch over time if heavy loads are used extensively,but catastrophes were very rare,and I'm sure the NRA,O'Connor,Page,and other scribes would have issued warnings.
The chamber/bolt head geometry is probably equal to Remington's "3 rings of steel" as far as safety is concerned.
Back in the 40's,50's and 60's,there were many thousands of 98-type Mausers converted to .270's,'06's,and the Magnum cartridges of the day.News of any problems were extremely rare.Today's tendency to sue someone for our own stupidity has led to a reluctance by gunsmiths to convert these actions unless they are re-heat-treated.
Unfortunately,it is too expensive to manufacture today.
I bought mine with the intention of having it customized until I found out what it cost.That,and not safety concerns,caused me to shelve the project.
I have found 7.65 ammo at some gun shows at a decent price.
The NRA used to sell an excellent 32 page booklet titled "Mauser Rifles" by Ludwig Olson.They may still offer it.
It includes reloading info for the 7.65X53.
Beware - I have seen info that there was another 7.65X54 cartridge floating around.I don't recall the details on it. Maybe another forum member has that info.
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03-02-2004, 06:46 AM
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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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A great historical find.... hope you enjoy it.
Keep your '06 loads a grain or two under max, as would be prudent on ANY gun approaching being a century old. You'll still get all the performance you need for any of the usual deer, pigs, etc.
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03-03-2004, 09:39 PM
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thanks for all the response this helps one other qeustion if i wanted to go with a synthetic stock which model mauser should i use as a replacement i hear that any stock for the m98 is basically the same thing and no virtually no mod
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03-04-2004, 03:50 AM
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I mentioned a synthetic stock in my previous post and I still think that the Ramline is the best bang for the buck. They come with a good recoil pad and sling swivels. You can usually find them for under a $100 and the Mauser version, with little modification can be used for any 98 action. As usual, any "one-size-fits-all" item doesn't. It will take a little "whittling" here and there but it won't be difficult. After the barreled action fits in the stock, a good glass bedding job is definately in order. I have used these for the 1909 and it worked well, just buy a Brownell's Acra Glass Gel bedding kit and a small black dye if you buy the black Ramline. Here is a thread that lists the Ramline for Mauser Large Ring for $99.00: http://www.tjgeneralstore.com/gun_stocks.htm and the Acra Glass can usually be had for under $20.00 at your local gunshop.
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