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New Mach 2 .17 Caliber Rimfire (not HMR)

11K views 17 replies 8 participants last post by  pyro 
#1 ·
I have been hearing rumors about this but it is now true. Hornady unveiled the new Mach 2 .17 caliber rimfire. It is not the .17 HMR but the 22 long rifle CCI stinger case necked down to .17 caliber. The bullet is the same 17 grain red polymer tipped bullet used in the .17 HMR. Advertised velocity is 2100 fps in rifle length barrels. These velocities combined with the sleek polymer tipped bullet will flatten trajectories significantly over .22 LR ammo.

You can find more info at www.hornady.com and www.outdoorsbest.com/shotshow/mach2_0223/index.html.
 

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#2 ·
Yes, it sort of made its debut at SHOT. Looks very interesting and I cannot wait for the barrels to flood the market for swapping out on 10/22s. It should be a lot of fun. With the .17 HS, the .17 Aguila, and the .17 MkII, it should be interesting to see which one is around by this time next year. I'll put my money on the .17 MkII. I have just the rifle for the barrel swap just as soon as Clark, Volquartsen, A&B, or Green Mountain gets geared up. Buter Creek? I didn't have much luck with their .22 LR barrel so I think I'll pass on their .17 MkII for now.

I think the new 20 gr. 17 HMR might be an interesting new load for it too. Three grains doesn't sound like much, but it is supposed to up the penetration of the .17 HMR by quite a bit. We'll see...
 
#3 ·
I'll second your thoughts, Big Bore -

Didn't have much luck with the Butler Creek .22LR carbon/ss bbl, myself. The Green Mountain, on the other hand, is a fine hunk of steel.

Yes, my 10/22 may have to try out a replacement bbl in the .17MkII when available and ammo is plentiful.
 
#4 ·
Big Bore said:
I think the new 20 gr. 17 HMR might be an interesting new load for it too. Three grains doesn't sound like much, but it is supposed to up the penetration of the .17 HMR by quite a bit. We'll see...
I just got the following response from Hornady on the 20gr:

"We will be offering a 20 grain 17HMR round. This round should be available around May. It will not have a V-Max bullet as our regular 17HMR round does. It will have an XTP bullet. At this time we are only taking orders from Distributors for this product. Muzzle velocity of this round is 2125 feet per second."

Three grains must indeed make a big difference at this caliber; I suppose it's similar to the difference between a 170gr bullet and a 200gr. In the mean time, I'm having a lot of fun with the 17 H&R I own -- It's dead-on at 50yds, about .7" high at 100yds, and drops about 4" at 200. I don't have a 150yd mark at the range I go to, but I'm guessing it's back to zero around there.
 
#5 ·
Nitro,

I saw the new Hornady 17Mach2 at the SHOT Show. CCI and Eley are making the round, too. First firearm manufacturer who would commit to me was Taurus, and they claim they'll have a Mach2 revolver on the dealer's shelves by August '04.

2100 fps is the advertised velocity for all three, and they each told me that the accuracy they got out of the new round was just phenomenal! The price on the ammo is supposed to be right around that of a "premium grade .22LR." Should be a lot of fun!

gunwriter
 
#6 ·
Hornady Mach 2

Thanks to all for your contribution to this thread. Please keep the info coming.

The .17 HMR 17 grain bullet has an advertised muzzle velocity of 2550 fps. According to my calculations, the energy is 245 lb.ft. The new Hornady load with its 20 grain XTP bullet has a muzzle velocity of 2135 fps with a muzzle energy of 203 lb.ft. It seems strange that the 17 grain load has 42 lb.ft., (21%) more energy than the 20 grain bullet load. Could be that any higher velocity and the little 20 grain XTP bullet would not hold together. The 20 grain bullet would need a muzzle velocity of 2350 fps to obtain an energy of 245 lb.ft.

Looks like the 17 Mach II is going to be a little screamer. The muzzle velocity of its 17 grain pill will have the same muzzle velocity as the .17 HMR 20 grainer. Should be interesting.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Remember energy figures lend a premium to velocity. The formula for kinetic energy is KE=1/2* M*V*V ( 1/2 times mass time velocity squared) Mass is in kilograms, velocity in meters/second. This formula as it is cannot be used to calculate the KE for a bullet by just plugging in bullet weight in grains, velocity in fps, and the answer is not in foot-lbs, but you get the idea, double the mass, double the KE, double the velocity, quadruple the KE.
That is why a slightly higher velocity has much higher KE figure.
 
#8 ·
Math

Big Bore said:
Remember energy figures lend a premium to velocity. The formula for kinetic energy is KE=1/2* M*V*V ( 1/2 times mass time velocity squared) Mass is in grams, velocity in meters/second. This formula as it is cannot be used to calculate the KE for a bullet by just plugging in bullet weight in grains, velocity in fps, and the answer is not in foot-lbs, but you get the idea.
That is why a slightly higher velocity has much higher KE figure.
Hello Big Bore,
It has been awhile since our paths have crossed. I see that you are still alive and kicking, as am I.

I rarely have a need to use the metric system. I can and have used it in the past and am curious as to the formula and metric answer that you obtain using a 17 grain projectile traveling at a velocity of 2550 feet per second, a 20 grain projectile at 2135 fps, and a 17 grain projectile at 2100 fps.
 
#9 ·
17 Mach II prices

gunwriter said:
Nitro,

I saw the new Hornady 17Mach2 at the SHOT Show. CCI and Eley are making the round, too. First firearm manufacturer who would commit to me was Taurus, and they claim they'll have a Mach2 revolver on the dealer's shelves by August '04.

2100 fps is the advertised velocity for all three, and they each told me that the accuracy they got out of the new round was just phenomenal! The price on the ammo is supposed to be right around that of a "premium grade .22LR." Should be a lot of fun!

gunwriter
Gunwriter,

You are dead on about the price being "around that of 'premium grade .22LR'. The MSRP is $8.00/box. midsouthshooterssupply.com has it for $5.23/box. Availabilitly time frame is Aug/Sep 03.

JJ
 
#10 ·
The metric answer, I really don't have a clue as I don't use the metric formula either. The ballistic calculator I use has all the conversions built into it so all I have to do is plug in bullet weight in grains and velocity in fps and it spits out the KE in ft-lbs. I was just using the basic KE formula to point out the premium placed on velocity, as the formula for KE to give the results as we are use to seeing them is a bit confusing, at least to me.

KE= (w/7000 grains per lb * 32.174 ft per sec sec) * (v*v)/2 where w is weight in grains and v is velocity in feet per second.

The above formula is too much to use to make a simple point, and frankly, just typing it gave me a headache :D
 
#11 ·
Lets make that simpler:

velocity X velocity

divide the result by 450240

multiple the result by the weight of the bullet in grains

result is (about) foot pounds of energy.


Just easier to use a pre-made constant (450240) for the parts of the sytem that aren't going to change (OK...know they can change...but not realisticaly).
 
#12 ·
Energy Formula

ribbonstone said:
Lets make that simpler:

velocity X velocity

divide the result by 450240

multiple the result by the weight of the bullet in grains

result is (about) foot pounds of energy.


Just easier to use a pre-made constant (450240) for the parts of the sytem that aren't going to change (OK...know they can change...but not realisticaly).
ribbonstone,

That is the formula that I use to calculate FPE but I simplify it a little. The following allows you to enter fewer digits into the calculator by shifting the decimal points to the left.

Lets say you are shooting a 180 grain bullet with a muzzle velocity of 2700 fps and you want to know the energy in ft. lbs.

Conventional method:
2700 X 2700 divided by 450240 X 180 = 2915 fps.

Short method:
27 X 27 divided by 45 X 180 = 2916 fps. (close enough).

This is probably much ado about nothing but works for me.

JJ
 
#13 ·
Just happened to have a calculator and a
reference book handy,
Still at work.....

When you put in metric units of mass (kilograms) and velocity (in meters per second) into the K.E. equation the results are in Kg M^2/Sec^2
which is a standard Metric System energy unit called a Joule.

Now for all the conversions:
There are 7000 grains in a pound
there are 2.2046226 pounds to a kilogram
there are 3.2808399 feet in a meter.

So, a 17 grain bullet masses
17/(7000*2.02046226)
which equals 0.00110158 kilograms

A 20 grain would be: 0.00129598 kg

Feet per second divided by 3.28....is easier
2550 fps = 777.24 meters per second
2135 = 650.75
2100 = 640.08

Now, doing all the ciphering gives
17 gr at 2550 fps = 245.4 ft-lbs = 332.7 Joules
17 gr at 2100 fps = 166.4 = 225.7
20 gr at 2135 fps = 202.4 = 274.4

With all that in mind, a much easier way,
as I found when I needed to look up the
exact values of the constants,
is that 1 Joule = 0.737562 ft-lbs
or conversely, 1 ft-lb = 1.35582 Joules
 
#15 ·
.22 Mach 2 math.

BigMikeG,

Got it. Thanks for the formula and the conversions. My brain has difficulty embracing the metric system. When I was in school (1951-1967) a meter was that thing you put a nickel in to park for 30 minutes.

BTW, I fly into Spokane at least once a year to hunt and fish with a friend who lives in Sandpoint, ID. After leaving the airport the first stops are the White Elephant and the Black Sheep sporting goods stores.

Enjoy catching 15 lb. Camloop trout on Lake Pend Oreille. They are hard to catch and even harder to land.

I'll not ramble on any longer. Thanks again for the info.

JJ
 
#16 ·
Hi all
As an avid cartridge collector, whenever I hear of a new round, I get interested. I had heard of the 17 Aguila about a year ago, then nothing. It wasn't until I read this thread just a moment ago that I heard Big Bore mention the 17 HS for the first time. I had to do a Google search to find out anything more. Only one related article came up.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/GunTech/NewsletterArchive.aspx?p=0&t=1&i=494

Does anyone have any further info?

pyro (Dean)
 
#17 · (Edited)
Sad to say, all of us who were hoping to do a simple barrel change on our 10/22s to the .17 MK2 are going to be sorely disappointed. It cannot be done without other fairly extreme changes, such as heavier bolts. It works in bolt guns and lever actions, but not in the semis.

"WARNING ABOUT MACH 2 FIREARM CONVERSIONS

Brownells has recently been informed by ATK Alliant Techsystems (parent company to CCI/SPEER) that converting .22 caliber rimfire semi-automatic firearms to the new Hornady .17 Mach 2 caliber could result in premature exposure of the fired cartridge resulting in potential serious injury.

Brownells is continually communicating with reputable, commercial firearms manufacturers and suppliers to keep our customers informed of future developments in this matter. To the best of our knowledge, no special safety precautions have yet been issued for the conversion of fixed breech bolt action, falling block and lever action rifles or revolvers in good, serviceable, safe condition. However, you must use caution in being sure the action is in excellent mechanical condition, made recently and the metal of sound manufacture.

Please read and understand the following safety notice presented here by permission of ATK. At this time, Brownells cannot recommend or suggest a safe and proven procedure for modifying any .22LR semi-automatic bolt for operation with .17 Mach 2 ammunition. As in all situations involving modification to the factory original gun, Brownells, its agents, officers and employees accept no responsibility for the results obtained by persons using such data and disclaim all liability for any consequential injuries or damages."

and

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