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It Beats the .17 HMR, Hands Down

25K views 31 replies 21 participants last post by  res45 
#1 · (Edited)
While the .17 Hornady Magnum Rimfire has taken the rimfire market by storm, a rimfire cartridge over three decades older beats it, hands down. The Power-Lokt hollow point is .204" in diameter and it weighs 38 grains. Case dimensions are about 18% larger at the base (.280" vs .240") but .034" shorter than the "Johnny come lately".

Here are the ballistics:

Velocity @ Muzzle: 2100 fps. Energy: 372 ft. lbs.
Velocity @ 100 yd: 1605 fps. Energy: 217 ft. lbs.
Velocity @ 150 yd: 1400 fps: Energy: 165 ft.lbs.

The 17 HMR's muzzle velocity of 2550 fps. yields a muzzle energy of 245 ft. lbs. That is a difference of 127 ft.lbs. or 52% more muzzle thump. That's a huge advantage for a cartridge that failed miserably in the 1970's.

Few outdorsmen know what this cartridge is. Even fewer have ever seen one, or the rifle that fires it. Needless to say, it is very rare to encounter someone who has actually fired one.

This mysterious cartridge is the Remington 5MM Rimfire Magnum (I can just hear my fellow old-timers yawning). Remington produced a very trim bolt action rifle: the clip fed 591M and the tubular fed 592M. It hit the shelves in 1970 and died just a few years later. Why? It certainly wasn't because it was an under performing rimfire. The only rimfire competion to the 5MM was the 22 magnum. It launched a 40 grain bullet at 2000 fps but velocity fell off rather sharply when compared to the 5MM's aerodynamic 38 grain Power-Lokt hollow point.

Unlike the 17 HMR, marketing was almost non-existant. With only Remington producing the ammunition and a single bolt action rifle, it was gone before most sportsmen knew it even existed. Ammunition cost didn't help either. At a time when a box of 100 22 LR's cost 79 cents, 5MM ammo cost $3.95 for a box of 50, and 22 magnum ammo cost half that.

Well, I have rambeled on long enough about my favorite rimfire. I still own and shoot a model 592M. If you think a squrrel or a water filled plastic bottle explodes when hit with the 17 HMR, you should see what happens when it is hit with 52% more energy.

JJ
 
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#3 ·
Yes, Nitro -

Timing is everything, along with aggressive marketing.

Think what happened with the .17HMR was Hornady producing the ammo and Ruger doing the initial chambering. Both firms had the means to aggresively market the round.

The 5mm Remington may well have a reserrection yet, if the interest in the .17HMR and the new .17MachII holds. It would be a natural to fill the niche between them.

What was that old Winchester .22 round that was around at the turn of the 20th Century and is the parent of the .22WMR?
 
#4 · (Edited)
5MM Ammo

444fitch said:
Where in the bejesus do you get Ammo! Last few boxes iv'e seen were 80.00 a box , if you bought 2 or more boxes they would give you the gun!


444fitch
I stocked up on 5MM before it was discontinued in the late 70's, and that lasted about 15 years. One day I was in an old store in rural Mississippi and saw 10 boxes of 5MM and 6 boxes of 6.5 Rem. Mag. ammo. I bought all of it. The 10 boxes of 5MM cost $80.00 and the 6 boxes of 6.5 Mag $48.00.

I am going to have to break down and get a 17 HMR because I'm almost out of the 5MM ammo. Now that Hornady makes a tougher 20 grain bullet, I won't miss the 5MM (NOT).

JJ
 
#5 ·
kdub said:
Yes, Nitro -

Timing is everything, along with aggressive marketing.

Think what happened with the .17HMR was Hornady producing the ammo and Ruger doing the initial chambering. Both firms had the means to aggresively market the round.

The 5mm Remington may well have a reserrection yet, if the interest in the .17HMR and the new .17MachII holds. It would be a natural to fill the niche between them.

What was that old Winchester .22 round that was around at the turn of the 20th Century and is the parent of the .22WMR?
kdub,

That was, and still is, the .22 Winchester Rimfire, aka .22 WRF. Winchester reintroduced this round about 10 years ago and it is currently listed in the Winchester ammo catalog and on the Winchester.com web site. MV: 1300 fps, ME: 1300 ft.lbs.

JJ
 
#6 ·
22 Winchester Rimfire (22 WRF)

kdub said:
What was that old Winchester .22 round that was around at the turn of the 20th Century and is the parent of the .22WMR?
kdub,

Here is a page on the 22 WRF that I scanned from "Cartridges of the World", 6th edition. I hope you can read it.

JJ
 
#8 ·
With the way the .17 has caught on, it would really not surprise me at all if Remington reintroduces the 5mm. If the Ruger .204 takes off I really expect to see a .20 RF come out also, and whereas Remington's timing sucked last time, maybe they will get it right this time. IF they don't wait too long. We seem to be on a feeding frenzy now with new cartridges, most that don't do a darned thing something else doesn't already do, and in many cases, do better, i.e. WSM, RSAUM...
 
#9 ·
YUP - but, aint't it great to have all these new toys to play with and argue about? :D
 
#10 ·
The 204 Ruger seems to be the new interest in varmint type calibers.

I've talked to a couple guys who had bought them thinking they were going to reload, but after shooting the factory loads, they decided there was no need.

Thats fine but the cost of the 204's is considerably high at around $16.00 a box, 20 count, compared to the 17HMR at $8.00/box, 50 count.

The 17HMR has proven on more than one occasion that it has the power. I've taken grounhogs out to over 200 yards with one shot kills on many hunting trips.

I made a big mistake though and sold my setup to a close friend of mine who bugged me for over six months for me to sell it to him.

I did and purchased a Remington 700 Classic in the 17 REM. Beautiful looking gun, but I didn't like how it performed or the cost of shooting it at about $15.00/box.

Don't get caught up in the marketing hype, if your needs are for a good rimfire that out performs the 22mag, then the 17HMR would be the gun. Fun to shoot and the accuracy and precision will impress you.
 
#11 · (Edited)
magshooter said:
The 204 Ruger seems to be the new interest in varmint type calibers.

I've talked to a couple guys who had bought them thinking they were going to reload, but after shooting the factory loads, they decided there was no need.

Thats fine but the cost of the 204's is considerably high at around $16.00 a box, 20 count, compared to the 17HMR at $8.00/box, 50 count.

The 17HMR has proven on more than one occasion that it has the power. I've taken grounhogs out to over 200 yards with one shot kills on many hunting trips.

I made a big mistake though and sold my setup to a close friend of mine who bugged me for over six months for me to sell it to him.

I did and purchased a Remington 700 Classic in the 17 REM. Beautiful looking gun, but I didn't like how it performed or the cost of shooting it at about $15.00/box.

Don't get caught up in the marketing hype, if your needs are for a good rimfire that out performs the 22mag, then the 17HMR would be the gun. Fun to shoot and the accuracy and precision will impress you.
How much do you want for your 17 Remington? I sold mine years ago and have been kicking myself ever since.
 
#13 ·
magshooter said:
Just traded it in, got $450 like new in box, the dealer has it marked as of Monday for $499.

If you want I'll see if he still has it, or I can pass on his phone number through a private message.
Thanks for the info. I won't need to contact him.

I remember the 5mm Remington. It came out when I was in high school. I was pretty excited about it, until I saw the price of the ammo. It was a great idea, but you could reload a 222 for a fraction of the cost.

One nice thing about the 17 HMR is that it is safer than a 22 Mag. The little 17 gr bullet with that deep hollow point running almost to the base is extremely frangible, which minimizes possibility of ricochet. Also, the bullet sheds velocity so fast that it can not travel as far as a 22 Mag can, even though it is flatter out to 200 yards.
 
#14 ·
Hello, my screenname is hadjii. I am new to this forum. I was directed to this forum on a question I had about the 5mm Rem. on another forum. Anyway, I have a little experience with the 5mm. I bought one in the mid 70's after I graduated high school and had a little money. How times have changed. Now I'm married, have 3 kids, a bunch of guns, another bunch of horses, and no money. Anyway, the first time I shot a squirrel with my 5mm, the head just plumb disappeared. It is a good squirrel gun, but only if you make a solid head shot. Yesterday, I happened to be at the local gunshop where I have done business scince I was old enough to buy guns, and we got to talking about 5mm's. The guy told me that he really stocked up on it while it was still available. Said he still had 10 cases, not boxes, 10 cases of the stuff. He didn't offer to sell me any though, so I don't know if he doesn't want to sell any of it, or if I have to dig real deep in the pocket to get some. Sure would like to have some it though. I really like that 5mm. I hope ya'll are right, and remington would reproduce it. maybe it would drive the price down some.
 
#15 ·
Try the Old Western Scrounger (do a search on that name, I'm sure you'll easily come up with the web site) for any sort of odd/out-of-production ammo.

Good luck and welcome to the forum!
 
#16 ·
Remington 5MM Rimfire Magnum Ammo

444fitch said:
Where in the bejesus do you get Ammo! Last few boxes iv'e seen were 80.00 a box , if you bought 2 or more boxes they would give you the gun!


444fitch
.


There is a company that can convert your Remington 591M or 592M 5MM Rimfire Magnum to a reloadable centerfire, but it ain't cheap. See info below. The web address is www.5mmcraig.com .

It looks interesting, but if you want something with a little more punch than the 5MM, look at the new Savage 40 Varmit Hunter in .22 Hornet. Retail is $436; street price is probably in the $325 range.

The price of the 5MM Craig conversion with dies and a few brass and bullets is $250. NOT I !! I think I'll take a closer look at the Savage or maybe a Charles Daly Mini-Mauser.
 

Attachments

#17 ·
NITRO said:
While the .17 Hornady Magnum Rimfire has taken the rimfire market by storm, a rimfire cartridge over three decades older beats it, hands down. The Power-Lokt hollow point is .204" in diameter and it weighs 38 grains. Case dimensions are about 18% larger at the base (.280" vs .240") but .034" shorter than the "Johnny come lately".

Here are the ballistics:

Velocity @ Muzzle: 2100 fps. Energy: 372 ft. lbs.
Velocity @ 100 yd: 1605 fps. Energy: 217 ft. lbs.
Velocity @ 150 yd: 1400 fps: Energy: 165 ft.lbs.

The 17 HMR's muzzle velocity of 2550 fps. yields a muzzle energy of 245 ft. lbs. That is a difference of 127 ft.lbs. or 52% more muzzle thump. That's a huge advantage for a cartridge that failed miserably in the 1970's.

Few outdorsmen know what this cartridge is. Even fewer have ever seen one, or the rifle that fires it. Needless to say, it is very rare to encounter someone who has actually fired one.

This mysterious cartridge is the Remington 5MM Rimfire Magnum (I can just hear my fellow old-timers yawning). Remington produced a very trim bolt action rifle: the clip fed 591M and the tubular fed 592M. It hit the shelves in 1970 and died just a few years later. Why? It certainly wasn't because it was an under performing rimfire. The only rimfire competion to the 5MM was the 22 magnum. It launched a 40 grain bullet at 2000 fps but velocity fell off rather sharply when compared to the 5MM's aerodynamic 38 grain Power-Lokt hollow point.

Unlike the 17 HMR, marketing was almost non-existant. With only Remington producing the ammunition and a single bolt action rifle, it was gone before most sportsmen knew it even existed. Ammunition cost didn't help either. At a time when a box of 100 22 LR's cost 79 cents, 5MM ammo cost $3.95 for a box of 50, and 22 magnum ammo cost half that.

Well, I have rambeled on long enough about my favorite rimfire. I still own and shoot a model 592M. If you think a squrrel or a water filled plastic bottle explodes when hit with the 17 HMR, you should see what happens when it is hit with 52% more energy.

JJ
Nitro,
Thought you might be interested in this:
http://owlnet.com/quality/5mm Remington Magnum.htm
 
#18 ·
NITRO said:
I stocked up on 5MM before it was discontinued in the late 70's, and that lasted about 15 years. One day I was in an old store in rural Mississippi and saw 10 boxes of 5MM and 6 boxes of 6.5 Rem. Mag. ammo. I bought all of it. The 10 boxes of 5MM cost $80.00 and the 6 boxes of 6.5 Mag $48.00.

I am going to have to break down and get a 17 HMR because I'm almost out of the 5MM ammo. Now that Hornady makes a tougher 20 grain bullet, I won't miss the 5MM (NOT).

JJ
Have you thought about relining your 5mm barrel with a 17 HMR. I think Brownells has the liners, drills and chamber reamers. If you like your rifle this would be a good way to keep it shooting.
 
#19 ·
5mm Rem Rf Mag Ammo Alternatives

alyeska338 and faucettb,

Thanks for the web info on the 5MM centerfire conversion and the barrel liner info. I am on my way to these two web sites right now.
 
#21 ·
Have heard of the 5mm remington magnum...

A dude called Aruthr Langsford manufactured .17 3000 tini mites back in the 70'2 - a rimfire .17 not too disimilar to the .17HRM.

He also made ammo and rifles for his .22 Myra which used an extrusion method to increase velocity.

Lots of good ideas seem to come and go and only become popular when a company can seriously invest and market them.

Wonder if the 5mm will ever return - with the increased popularity of rimfires this century.
 
#22 ·
BriGuy said:
Well I would say that considering your 5mm is a 38 grainer, and the .17 HMR is a 17 grainer, the difference of 127 ft.lbs. at the muzzle isn't that bad....not since the 17 weighs about 50% less... Not exactly apples to apples....
.

BriGuy. Welcome to the forum.

I'll try some apples-to apples. The lightest 5mm bullet that I can find is a 30 grain Berger. The SAAMI max for the 5mm Rem Mag is 37,000 psi. Using the program "Loads from a Disc" I arrived at 2984 fps at 37,691 psi with 594 ft.lbs. energy. Since factory ammo is rarely, if ever, loaded to SAAMI max, I will reduce the load to 75% case volume for a velocity of 2568 fps at 27,899 psi with 440 ft.lbs energy.

The heavist 17 HMR bullet available in factory ammo is the Hornady 20 grain load at 2375 fps and energy of 250 ft.lbs at 27,270 psi.

A 20 grain .172" bullet and a 30 grain 5MM (.204") bullet for all intents and purposes, is A-to-A.

27,270 psi for the 17 HMR and 27,899 psi for the 5mm Rem Mag is A-to-A.

This yields 250 ft.lbs for the 17 HMR and 440 ft.lbs for the 5mm RFM. Given the same pressure, the case with the larger capacity and greater bullet diameter will always yield superior ballistics.

My purpose in starting this thread was to point out how the 5mm RFM, a superior bottle-necked rimfire cartridge, failed 30 years ago only to be greatly overshadowed by a ballistically inferior one in the 21 century.

The 5mm Remington Rimfire Magnum was way ahead of it's time in 1971.
 
#23 ·
I wish they'd bring it back, too. Chamber the 541-T for 5mm Rem Mag and watch them fly out the door!!

OWS doesn't have any, I don't think. There had been some scuttlebutt around the web that OWS was going to commission Aguila to make a run of 5-Mag. Straight from The Scrounger's mouth (via e-mail)......"it ain't gonna happen......too costly".

From Remington, themselves......... "don't hold your breath".

Of coures, the above are paraphrases. But that's the entire gist of what they both told me. Don't look good on the homefront for 5-Mag shootersor wannabes.
 
#24 ·
Remington could pull the rug out on my collection of ammo by restarting 5mm. It would become monetarily worthless but still the best ever rimfire. I've collected over the last 5 years 4400 rounds and increased my rifle count to 5 ea. This is a considerable amount of money invested. I'm an original user and got my 1st gun when I was 13. I'm all for them bring it back.
 
#25 ·
And as you mentioned about aggressive marketing...

They wouldn't license anyone else to make ammo for it. I remember the 5mm Rem well. It was a honey. But given the marketing powers at Remington, it's fate was already sealed.

Remington's marketing has always been paranoid and sophmoric. Their future was predicted.
 
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