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  #1  
Old 05-08-2004, 02:24 PM
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22 Stinger


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I'm thinking about a handgun for my wife and was just looking around at Gander Mountain. A guy there recommended the Beretta bobcat or tomcat in 22 with a tip up barrel and to use 22 stingers. He said they do all kinds "bad things" on penetration.

I can't seem to find anything on a 22 stinger, the closest so far is Remington's yellow jacket.

Any info on the 22 stinger as a self defense round would be appreciated.
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  #2  
Old 05-08-2004, 02:51 PM
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CCI Stingers. I can't say how good they'd be for self-defense, but they do shred gophers and crows. They are a bit hotter than Yellow Jackets and I believe they're the hottest .22 Long Rifle load available.
http://www.cci-ammunition.com/defaul...=18&prod_id=13

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  #3  
Old 05-09-2004, 08:55 AM
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I'm not sure any .22 is what I'd buy for defense, but if recoil is a problem, she might be better served with a .32 or .380, stuffed with Glasers. At halitosis range they're very nasty. I'm assuming this would be a "Last-Ditch" weapon.

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  #4  
Old 05-09-2004, 09:20 PM
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You sound as skeptical as I was. I think I'll go back to plan A.
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  #5  
Old 05-19-2004, 03:32 PM
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Get your wife a 38sp S.W. Chief sp. ! These days when you have to shoot some one they better be dead ! And a automatic is not what you want in the hands of someone who just had to shoot someone as it is automaticly cocked with a round in the chamber again! She will be both nurvise and shaken and scared with a cocked pistol in her hands ! And so will you ! JAGG
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  #6  
Old 06-08-2004, 05:18 AM
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I gotta go with JAGG the revolver is a better choice than an auto for self defense in the hands of someone whom has not done a lot of shooting. Way safer to handle. No safety to take off, nothing to think about except pulling the trigger in a nasty situation. Lots of different loads available from 38 wadcutters which are excellent at close range with little recoil to to full blown plus P loads. Much easier to teach to be effective with. If you get the shrouded hammer model this weapon can also be fired from a purse or pocket without hanging up anything. Remember the most effective weapon you can shoot, cause it's your life you may save.
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  #7  
Old 07-19-2004, 05:23 PM
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My 2 cents:
Get an average weight small gun in .32 or .38 and one similar to it in .22. Have her shoot the .22 lots and lots, then occasionally try the bigger gun with light loads. Then shoot the .22 lots and lots more.

I once had a big man explain to me he didn't do too well with a bigger caliber gun, but he could place a .22 anywhere he wanted again and again and again. So the big man had a very nice quality .22 and confidence in his ability (and sense to run if he could.)

I agree with others who have said "One direct hit with a 22 is better than 6 misses with a 44. I agree with the revolver idea too. Just keep pulling the trigger.
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  #8  
Old 07-31-2004, 06:19 PM
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>recommended the Beretta bobcat or tomcat in 22 with a tip up barrel and to use 22 stingers.
>Any info on the 22 stinger as a self defense round would be appreciated.

First, let me say that the previous replies are all good advice: The heavier the caliber, the better it is for self defense. However, it sometimes happens that physical problems limit recoil tolerance, and I can tell you from many personal experineces that ANY gun is far better than none in unpleasant situations.

In theory, the recommended combination is not a bad one, but let me caution you strongly to actually TEST the functioning of that combo before you dedicate yourself to it: I know of two people who have tried the Stinger in the Beretta or the Tarus copy. NEITHER ONE will feed the Stinger with any semblance of reliability. They jam several times with each clip, with the nose of the slug deeply imbedded into the top of the chamber at the edge. The reason appears to be that the Stinger is just a trifle shorter than most .22 LR, and the tip isn't inside the chamber at the proper point in the feeding cycle. In both guns, any standard length .22 works with utter reliability.

HTH
Molly
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  #9  
Old 08-13-2004, 12:26 AM
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I have had difficulty with Stingers in my Ruger MK II. This particular gun does not like CCI ammo in general - or plated ammo either. However, it is accurate and will pump out 11 rounds (1 loaded in the chamber with the clip and then fill the clip with 10 rounds) of the cheapest lead bullets.
Years ago I saw the wanton waste of a bear in Southeast Alaska by a young fellow who sat in a boat offshore and kept pumping .22 shots at this brownie. That bear would stand up and roar and swat the 'flies'. However, after about 100 rounds he had been hit enough times that he died. While I still get disgusted to think of what that guy did, the point is that a .22 will piss off, and kill, any 'bad guy'.
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  #10  
Old 08-13-2004, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur_500
the point is that a .22 will piss off, and kill, any 'bad guy'.
Yes, but do you want to kill him ... or stop him? Many people confuse the two, but they are not very closely related. A spoonful of arsenic has virtually 100% killing power, but the victim can go a long way and do a lot of things before death occurs. Similarly, a high brick wall with broken glass on top has virtually 100% stopping power, but no inherent killing power.

I'm not trying to be a smart A. Consider your own story, and place that bear as the 'bad guy' you have to deal with. If that bad guy is doing something you find so objectionable that you are willing to shoot him, do you really want him to be able to continue doing it for as long as it takes you to get a hundred shots off? How about just a dozen shots? I sure wouldn't. I wouldn't object to killing him it that happened to be necessary, but my primary goal would be to stop his objectionable behavior, and stop it RIGHT NOW!!!

That's why large caliber guns are ususally preferred for defense situations: They inflict more damage (per shot) and are therefore more likely to cause immediate incapacitation, if not death. Yes, small calibers CAN cause immediate incapacitation, particularly if they hit part of the centrall nervous system. But the odds are considerably lower.

They remain useful for self defense though, for a number of reasons. Nobody wants to get shot, even with a pellet gun. The appearance of ANY firearm is an announcement that the fun is over, and the game is going to be played for keeps from this point on. And even if a torso shot from a .22 does fail to incapacatate a felon, it is still very likely to shift his attention from inflicting harm to locating and reaching a hospital. At the very worst, it may weaken him enough that he will be less able to inflict harm. And it may be cold comfort, but it will make the job of the police much easier when he eventually does turn up at the morgue - or at a hospital for treatment, which I assure you will occur within a few days.

kbmoly
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  #11  
Old 09-08-2004, 09:39 AM
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When you shoot someone in self defence you have to go to court ! The more bullets in the dead person the worse you look to those guncontrol people standing in judgement of you ! As these days people believe what they see in the movies , one shot the man falls and dies or it is only a flesh wound ! If the bad guy also lives now you will hear his story of how you were trying to sell him drugs of were trying to rob him of his money ! The JURY will be listening to this stuff and will start to wonder about your story ! There are women who can shoot 45's loose the 22 idea ! JAGG
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  #12  
Old 09-08-2004, 04:29 PM
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Hi JAGG,

FWIW, my personal preference for companionship in SSS (Serious Social Situations) is a Charter Arms .44 Bulldog snubbie, with rather stiff handloads of Herco under a hard keith type slug. Second choice is ditto with Win Silvertips. But I'm not particularly recoil shy: I've actually used a 12 gauge pistol that was actually a sleeved flare gun thhat only weighed a pound or two.

But my wife isn't quite as sturdy, and there are a LOT of folks with physical handicaps that absolutely prevent them from handling a gun with any recoil. My wife can't even pull back the slide on a dinky little 9mm. Does that mean that she's ineligible to defend herself in the event that I'm not there to do it for her? I don't think so.

My point was not that the .22 was an ideal defense round. It isn't. But it's a BLEEP of a lot better than a sharp stick. NOBODY wants to get shot, even with a BB gun. Pull a gun - ANY gun - with a determined attitude, and Perps tend to adopt uncommonly good manners. I've experienced it on any number of occasions. The nastiest drunken thugs you never want to meet will say 'yes sir' and 'no sir', and sit down where you tell them and spend their time hoping the cops will HURRY. And if you invite them to make any sudden movements so's you can shoot them with a clean consience, you'll never have to pull the trigger, whether it's a .44 or a .22.

Granted, the .22 doesn't have anywhere near the 'stopping power' of a .44 or .45 if you do have to shoot someone. But you don't have to incapictate someone in order to stop them. Very few Perps will show much interest in anything but the location of the nearest hospital after he's been shot - even with a .22. And stopping the distressful situation that upsets me enough to shoot someone is sufficient for the time being. If I'm the one doing the shooting, there is not likely to be any conflicting testimony. If it's my wife, it'll take a bloody good lawyer to make a feeble grandmother with a long history of Christian service look like she's peddling drugs or wantonly assulting some 200 pound Perp. It's still the best shot she has. I'll take my chances.

kbmoly
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  #13  
Old 09-08-2004, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAGG
When you shoot someone in self defence you have to go to court ! The more bullets in the dead person the worse you look to those guncontrol people standing in judgement of you ! As these days people believe what they see in the movies , one shot the man falls and dies or it is only a flesh wound ! If the bad guy also lives now you will hear his story of how you were trying to sell him drugs of were trying to rob him of his money ! The JURY will be listening to this stuff and will start to wonder about your story ! There are women who can shoot 45's loose the 22 idea ! JAGG

JAGG,

I couldn't agree more. My wife had no problem controlling a Glock M23 / .40 S&W but wanted a revolver just to keep things simple. I gave her a Taurus M450 Ultra Lite 5-shot revolver chambered in .45 (long) Colt. It weighs 19 oz. empty and when loaded with 225 grain Winchester Silvertips, is up to the task.

She may only get one shot and that one shot must be capable of instantly eliminating the threat.
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  #14  
Old 09-17-2004, 11:36 AM
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KbMoly ! In calf. a number of years ago a 90year lady in a wheel chair shot once and killed with her dead husbands WW1 45auto , a punk who broke through her front door in daylight and was threatening her after she warned him ! Well the prosecutor tried to put her in jail any way ! Now if that low life had lived she would have gone to jail with his trumpted up story ! The only thing that saved her from prosecution and jail anyway was some political talk that came down while he was building his case against this women ! JAGG
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  #15  
Old 09-18-2004, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAGG
KbMoly ! In calf. a number of years ago a 90year lady in a wheel chair shot once and killed with her dead husbands WW1 45auto , a punk who broke through her front door in daylight and was threatening her after she warned him ! Well the prosecutor tried to put her in jail any way ! Now if that low life had lived she would have gone to jail with his trumpted up story ! The only thing that saved her from prosecution and jail anyway was some political talk that came down while he was building his case against this women ! JAGG
Yeah, I know things like that happen. There's no perfect answer. You just have to do the best you can with what you have or with what you can handle, and leave the rest in God's hands. For me, that's most any big bore handgun. For my wife, it's a .22. Her muscular problems and arthritis even make that marginal, and anything more robust would be excruciatingly painful to fire, even if she could manage to lift it up and bring it to bear. 'Taint wonderful, but it's the best I know to do for her. Got any better suggestions?

Regards,
kbmoly
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  #16  
Old 09-26-2005, 04:16 AM
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I have a Sterling 302 stainless mini .22 auto that was a gift from Dad 25 years ago so has it's sentimental value but also a great pocket gun when hiking or fishing in summer weather. The ONLY ammo which functions 100% in this gun are the Stingers no other round tried having enough blow-back to fully work the slide, cock the hammer, and feed next round though I haven't tried the Velocitor yet since none available locally. I also have a J-frame size Taurus model 94 9 shot .22 which is accurate, and of course 100% reliable with any ammo choice. I have a K-frame .357 which is an ideal defensive round and gun but most times too bulky to carry around so prefer having the little Sterling handy though eventually will upgrade to Keltec in 380. There are better choices than a .22 for defense but a 22 in the hand beats a 357 in the locker. Test all ammo for reliability if you choose to go the .22 auto route.
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  #17  
Old 09-26-2005, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbmoly
Yeah, I know things like that happen. There's no perfect answer. You just have to do the best you can with what you have or with what you can handle, and leave the rest in God's hands. For me, that's most any big bore handgun. For my wife, it's a .22. Her muscular problems and arthritis even make that marginal, and anything more robust would be excruciatingly painful to fire, even if she could manage to lift it up and bring it to bear. 'Taint wonderful, but it's the best I know to do for her. Got any better suggestions?

Regards,
kbmoly
KBMOLY
Go to www.udap.com and read some about personal size bear sprays, like their Jogger model. There are a couple of other companies to check out too. That may be a good solution for your wife and you too (and me too.)
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  #18  
Old 09-29-2005, 07:20 PM
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My wife's Beretta M21 22 LR suits her well.

(I believe the Tomcat is Beretta's 32 ACP).

She likes it better than the S&W M38 Airweight - it's flat. And it gobbles up CCI Stingers every time.

I sometimes stick it in my Wranglers right rear pocket when I'm making a grocery store run - even though I'm a dedicated "bigger is better" advocate.
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  #19  
Old 09-30-2005, 06:01 PM
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kbmoly,
the CCI Stinger if I remember right uses a slightly longer case and that causes feeding and extraction problems in some guns. You might look at the CCI Velocitor if you really have to go .22LR. 40 grain plated Speer HP at a factory measured 1400 fps. A little slower than the Stinger but 25% more bullet weight and it functions fine in every .22 LR I have tried it in from the Walther P22 to the MkIIs and BuckMark along with a handful of different .22 LR rifles. It's a good small game / close in varmint round too.
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  #20  
Old 10-24-2005, 12:06 PM
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seriously folks

Ya use your handgun to get yourself to something better, say a short barrel pump 12ga or a serious rifle. I have worked in the ER many many many nights and seen many many people with handgun rounds patched in sent on, but the 12 guage and the fighting rifle when properly applied put a end to SSS.

Not against handguns mind you, but for defense, don't stop with just a handgun. Develope a defensive plan and mindset. Equipyourself properly. practice practice practice.

Now if you want to teach her how to shoot, indeed start with the .22 and work up, in both pistol and rifle.
Ruger 22/45 and 10/22 are great trainers at very attractive prices.
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