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  #1  
Old 08-06-2012, 02:40 PM
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22 ammo accuracy


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I have mostly Remington 510 series and 580 series 22 RF rifles and they don't seem to picky as far as ammo. I was surprised by a couple of comments on different blogs as to what people like and hate about different ammo from different manufacturers. So I decided to take a 22 rimfire (a Winchester with a 4 power scope mounted on it) that I had only sighted in with a certain brand of ammo and have taken it out to a range on the prairie the other day as I was also checking a 223 for a planned prairie dog shoot. The wind was about 30 miles per hour and it was gusting. I shot with the wind and was surprised how much the group sizes varied - 1" groups up to 5" groups. I was shooting at 75 yards. Today I took it out to a range in the hills and that range was protected from the wind. I was shooting off bags and comparing two brands of ammo - both LR hollow points in bulk packages and they were both the top of the line ammo for these two companies. I shot at 25 yards today.

Brand "A" was shooting about 1/2" groups (3 and 5 shot groups - holes touching)

Brand "B" was shooting about 2" groups.

Brand "A" is the ammo I shoot most of the time with all my 22's and Brand "B" was something I pick up on sale now and then. These two manufacturers were two of the top three 22 RF ammo manufacturers, I think -- maybe the two top manufacturers. Besides the different group sizes I was surprised at the different point of impact - it was significant > 4" at 25 yards.

Lesson learned. Even with the 22 RF sight the rifle in with the ammo that your going to use and if it doesn't shoot accurate enough try other brands. If you are going to shoot a different brand of ammo, check the point of impact.
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  #2  
Old 08-06-2012, 04:41 PM
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If I were to find a "thing" that I hate most about rimfires, Is the fact that I have no control about ammunition other than buying what I can by lot #.

I have purdy much the same beef with primers for centerfires.

"Happy-spot" I work with 22 long rifle is near an inch at 55 yards with bulk (affordable) ammunition.

If I spend near $35-40 per 500, I can get near 1/2" inch at the same range.

I am not inclined to spend $10 for 50 rounds of "premium" ammunition. I don't even know if my rifle would like them? Really don't care!

Might make a smaler group on paper? Not worth the price for me.

Cheezywan
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  #3  
Old 08-09-2012, 05:50 AM
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Clean the barrel when changing brands or types. The different lubes on the bullets can do strange things. 1/2" is the best my Rem 581 or Mossberg 144 will do @ 50 yds with cheap ammo. Never tried match.
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  #4  
Old 08-10-2012, 12:58 PM
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So I went and bought 200 rd's of CCI HP. $.08 per round. It shot very well in the 9422. Do I like it? Did I say 8 cents a round?

OK, I may be tight, but I might as well cast bullets for my lower powered center fires at that price.

I remember 22 shorts at $0.35 per 50, 22 longs at < $0.50 per 50 and 22 LR at $0.55 per box of 50. I guess there good reasons (other than big government) that our days on earth are numbered.
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  #5  
Old 08-11-2012, 07:06 AM
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I hear you. Loading 45 acp with my cast bullets is the way to go. Primer & a pinch of Bullseye, very low cost. Brass lasts till i loose it.
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  #6  
Old 12-16-2012, 04:56 PM
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sort them by rim thickness.....then shoot only those with the same thickness..
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  #7  
Old 01-03-2013, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by So Dakota View Post
I remember 22 shorts at $0.35 per 50, 22 longs at < $0.50 per 50 and 22 LR at $0.55 per box of 50.
That's because you're old, but not so old you've forgotten prices.

I remember when the guy at the hardware store sold .22 ammo by the round, to 12-13 year old kids. Back in the days when kids shot ground hogs, instead of teachers and classmates. (Hows that for progress).

Now, the thread question.

If you can find any .22 ammo at the moment, it's the good kind.

I have 6 rimfires hanging around. Some like Federal, some like Winchester, Remington goes bang in all of them as the bulk stuff goes, but not a lot more. Fiocci is very good stuff if you see some. The most consistent over many years is Federal Champion Target. CCI is usually more than it's worth, but it always shoots well too, so pay up, and be glad when you see some.

Bulk ammo can be sorted, and if you figure out what your guns like for rim dimension, and weight, about 40-60% of every box will likely shoot well, and go off when you pull the trigger. Near as I can tell, Federal is the best there. The lower performance rounds are used for blazing at clay bird pieces in a gravel pit, I blame misses on the quality.

I've had excellent luck with Winchester HS/HSHP in the silver box.

I also buy CCI in a couple flavors, but I don't use it for "practice".

When I draw a bead on a bunny or squirrel, I shoot the quality grades.
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  #8  
Old 03-08-2013, 10:52 AM
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I see that this is an old topic, with only one recent posting, but I'll give of some info I have gained for those who may still be standing back in the shadows.

Barrel and firearm quality makes a huge difference in what shoots well in a given .22.

Now as I suspect most or all of you know, a .22 with a reasonable production line barrel will likely shoot very nice 50yd groups, providing the shooter is willing to invest the time and money to find what could be only one or two brands/types which will, do so.

I'm talking 10 shot 50yd groups here.

About 3 years back, a friend and I decided to have a friendly shoot out with our .22 rifles. Jack with his Salvage Mark ?? single shot, semi-target type rifle and me with my Clark Custom 77/22.

The first year we shot mostly match/target ammo from different makers and different types or quality levels in some brands. This included the very pricey Eley Tenx, a couple of the high end Lapua offerings including those with different bullet dia., the Old and no longer made Federal Gold Medal Ultra Match like that used in the Olympics some years back, CCI Green Tag, Wolf Match Target and Match Extra, etc. etc.

The results, well Jack's rifle shot right along with the Clark and it's Walther barrel and even out did it with some ammo.

Then, the second year, again shot on a calm morning, off the same bench and bags and shooting from the same 50 round boxes, we shot the typical off the shelf ammos of different makers.

The results -------------- this time a big difference. While Jacks's rifle did shoot a nice groups or two with ammo it favored, the Clark just kept shooting nice little groups, group after group after group with the exception being something that opened up.

Please know I am not throwing stones at anyone's selection of firearm, for that is simply not the case. HOWEVER, what I am trying to do is point out the fact that while most rifles will shoot very well with their favored ammo, the better the rifle/barrel the longer the list will be of those ammos it favors.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
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  #9  
Old 03-09-2013, 05:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusty Ol'Coot View Post
Please know I am not throwing stones at anyone's selection of firearm, for that is simply not the case. HOWEVER, what I am trying to do is point out the fact that while most rifles will shoot very well with their favored ammo, the better the rifle/barrel the longer the list will be of those ammos it favors.
Ah, chuck some stones, it's good exercise

I think you're right on this one. But some bulk ammo cannot be saved as fliers go, without sorting.

I now have three rifles, the recent addition was a Savage BV I acquired just to have one. All the raving fans made me curious.

My 10/22 is wearing a Green Mountain 16.5"/.920 barrel, mounted in a Hogue stock. The trigger parts, with the exception of a Tactical Innovations trigger (which is pretty, but does notta), a matching magazine release, (really nice addition), and a Jard 1017 3lb trigger spring, are all polished Ruger parts, with some of the sear/trigger dimensions reduced to decrease travel, and feel. With a 2X-7X Nikon Prostaff slug scope, the better grades of target ammo will do the 10 shots in a 1/2" @ 50yds, on a calm day, more often than not. Ely Club will often top that.

My 77/22 VBZ came home a bit of a dog for the dollars I spent. Cleaning up the trigger surfaces, a Wolf spring kit, and an over travel screw helped a bit, but even the best ammo was hard pressed to stay within and inch for 10 shots. It was wearing a Leupold 3X-9X Compact AO at that point. The bore did have a couple rough spots that didn't respond to JB on a tight patch, so I went through the trouble of a lead lap. It shoots as well with the best ammo as the 10/22, but as you observed, with the lower grades, there is a difference. It now wears a Nikon Rimfire 3X-9X with the BDC reticle, as I just had to see. That is a cool scope, although a bit large.

When the BV came home, I took it apart, and cleaned up the rough spots on the bolt components, and trigger assembly, as some on rimfire central indicated the firing pin energy was erratic. I also gave the bore a treatment with JB on a tight patch as there were a couple snags. I mounted another Nikon Prostaff 2X-7X slug scope in Burris rings. The first trip to the range with Federal Gameshock, and Aguila HS was very satisfying, as both loads would stay inside a 1" Birchwood Casey spot @ 50yds. I rate both as pretty good working class ammo, and either would be suitable for head shots on a groundhog at 75yds, or squirrels at 50yds.

The point worth noting, Thunderbolt shoots on average of 1.5" from the 10/22, 2" from the VBZ, and almost 4" from the Savage.

I should probably buy a couple more rifles, as three is not a deep number, but in my limited collection, your theory holds up. The Savage is a work in progress, as part of the purchase was to see how much it would respond to tweaking.
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  #10  
Old 03-09-2013, 02:24 PM
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Tman,

How do you sort your .22 ammo. Do you use one of the rim measuring devices?

CDOC
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  #11  
Old 03-09-2013, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusty Ol'Coot View Post
How do you sort your .22 ammo. Do you use one of the rim measuring devices?
Crusty, this is an interesting process, and there doesn't seem to be a common thread or best approach. It is also rifle specific, based on the work I've done so far.

I do use a Neil Jones Custom Products Gauge for rim thickness, but that's not the complete answer. Some rim thickness parameters work better than others, from brand to brand, lot to lot. I can see differences in accuracy when I sort, but a rim thickness of x.x with one brand, doesn't seem to be the same parameter that works well with another brand. ??

Sorting by rim thickness usually improves accuracy with bulk ammo. Sorting rim groups by weight makes a difference, sometimes, but not always. ??

Oddly, the worse the ammo, the better it works. Thunderbolt and Cyclone, the worst of the worst, produces surprising accuracy when sorted.

My VBZ likes thinner rims, my BV, almost as accurate doesn't seem to care as long as rim size is consistent. Wolf Match and Federal HS Match, my rifles can't see any real difference.

It's a work in progress, and I'm compiling a data set in Mini Tab. Sorting helps, most of the time, but I am not sure exactly why.
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  #12  
Old 03-10-2013, 03:05 AM
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22s

Testing .22s for accuracy in a particular gun is always a revelation.
I have two rim thickness gauges. I no longer use them. What I have found - for Bullseye shooting, as well as small bore prone - is that once I have established that a particular lot and a particular brand is accurate in my guns further separation is just not worth the trouble.
Quote:
I remember 22 shorts at $0.35 per 50, 22 longs at < $0.50 per 50 and 22 LR at $0.55 per box of 50. I guess there good reasons (other than big government) that our days on earth are numbered.
That made me smile. Yeah, things were cheaper. But wages were lower too.
What was the minimum wage back when ammo was at that price?
Pete
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  #13  
Old 03-10-2013, 07:06 AM
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Thanks Tman & Pete,

I have read comments about the rim thickness gauges, and your comments pretty much stack up with what I have read. Results are at times questionable or hard to see/prove.

Guess it is just one more reason I'm happy with the Walther Barrel on the Clark Custom 77/22.

With that level of barrel quality, it just provides me with a much broader range of options/choices.

Do I really need a rifle with this level of ability? No, but having one was as I've said other times and places, a scratch that just needed scratching.

CDOC
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  #14  
Old 04-04-2013, 05:33 PM
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Funny you should ask, I just came in ....

I have a new Savage MkII FV-SR (22 bolt, short bull barrel rifle, suppressor ready)

I was breaking in the barrel with Federal Auto Match. At 50 yards from the "bench" I was getting 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 inch groups. Ignoring the flyers and the group sizes were ~ 1 1/8, But each 5 shot group had one flyer.

I switched to Federal Gold Medal Target, these too had fliers but not in each group. Groupings of 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 inches with fliers and 1/2 - 3/4 inches ignoring fliers.

I had a FV before this (21 inch bull) and t22 was like a shotgun and CCI quiets were worse but Wolf, Federal Target and Winchester sub sonic truncated hollow points would do under an inch, with luck.

//

Yeah, $0.01 a round ... What a trip in the way back machine. The days when you knew what was in season by what ammo was sitting next to the hardware store cash register. Not shocking to see an ammo shelf in a drug store.

My High School shooting team would buy bricks and sell us ammo for $0.50 a box ... and put the profit towards the club. I think we raised it to $0.75 my senior year.

Yeah, a High School Shooting Team.

Things sure have changed.

.
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  #15  
Old 04-04-2013, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusty Ol'Coot View Post
I have read comments about the rim thickness gauges, and your comments pretty much stack up with what I have read. Results are at times questionable or hard to see/prove.
I measured rim thickness of 2 or 3 boxes once, no noticeable difference,
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  #16  
Old 09-30-2013, 01:35 PM
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Personally, testing 22s at 75 yards in 30 mph winds seems pretty difficult...
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  #17  
Old 09-30-2013, 01:42 PM
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Impossible!

CDOC
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  #18  
Old 09-30-2013, 08:19 PM
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The .22 headspaces on the rim so the relationship between rim thickness and chamber size is very important to consistency. Simply measuring rim thickness alone and partitioning them by rim thickness is only a part of the accuracy equation, that is especially true of the 10/22 or the 77/22. Both have unique issues that must be addressed unless you have a rare example. On the 77/22 the big issue is the way the bolt is made. Change the thickness of the thrush washer to tighten up the action. The other typical issues such as bedding and trigger also apply. On the 10/22 there are a lot of variables. I have written before about inexpensive techniques to make this design work. Can do so again, but i have heard that the newest models with the plastic trigger components are even more difficult to tune.
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  #19  
Old 12-15-2013, 07:00 AM
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this is some testing i started doing and going to test a lot of different types and brands of 22lr ammo

MARLIN XT22R DYNAPOINT 10 SHOT GROUP - YouTube

MARLIN XT22R M 22 10 SHOT GROUP TEST - YouTube

22LR CHRONY TEST DYNAPOINT - YouTube

22LR CHRONY TEST PART 2 (M22) - YouTube

A QUICK LOOK MARLIN XT22R NOW - YouTube
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  #20  
Old 12-15-2013, 08:11 AM
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ringet421,

Would be interesting to see what another barrel/rifle would do with the same ammo shot same day/time with ammo from the same box.

Realize your testing YOUR rifle, but a comparison would be interesting.

I'd say the groups shown are about what I'd expect with "off the shelf" ammos from many rifles.

However, what is "M22" - brand etc. Abbreviations sometimes leave us hanging.

Dynapoint is, as I recall, a Winchester product.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
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