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Need a .22 pump or lever action

56K views 112 replies 22 participants last post by  eljay 
#1 · (Edited)
I find myself without a .22 and, living in the country, I feel I gotta have one. I'm looking for opinions/advice/experience.

I am ONLY interested in either a pump or a lever action, and I don't want a Henry. I would prefer that it be able to accept some sort of receiver mounted aperture sight (and NOT a tang mounted type).

Given those constraints, what should I be looking at?

Thanks,

eljay
 
#2 ·
At least three rifles answer your specific need. The Winchester M-9422, Marlin Model 39 and the Remington 572 pump.

The Winchester is no longer made but is readily available. The Marlin Model 39 (we have the 39M - straight stock, shorter barrel) and the Remington are readily available new.

My Dad has a Winchester 9422 equipped with a Williams Guide reciever sight. This is an effective and unobtrusive sight whit does require a new front sight.

Our Marlin M-39M has a Williams Reciever sight and we installed a target knob for elevation to make it a little quicker to adjust for different distances.

To be truthful if you mark the slide on a Williams Guide reciever sight it is just about as quick to adjust.

We left the open sights on the Remington pump.

The Winchester has just a little slicker action than the Marlin - but not by much. Both rifles take down easily for cleaning but the Winchester is just a little easier to put back together.
The Remington comes apart quite easily for cleaning also but is not a "take down" type action.

The prbloem with a .22lr whether used for hunting or plinking is it very hard to "hold over" with anything but open sights. The sights that come on the rifles are not the best.
A .22lr sighted properly will allow you to take a six oclock hold up close and cover your target with the bead for further out shots. This works well but you should not be changing your ammunition too often.

By the way. The "new" Federal Champion ammunition is VERY accurate in a variety of rifles and handguns. The knurled bearing surface of the bullet mikes between .223" and .224". Below the knurled belt there is a small drive band just ahead of the case which mikes between .2245" and .225". This ammunition is capable of remarkable accuracy in "sporting chambers" and is worth looking at no matter which rifle you buy.

The Remington pump by the way, can easily be used as a single shot for young shooters. The action stroke is short and fast. The rifle is a LOT OF FUN to plink with.
 
#6 ·
william iorg said:
At least three rifles answer your specific need. The Winchester M-9422, Marlin Model 39 and the Remington 572 pump.
Thanks for a very informative reply. And, I hope you see this, because I do have a question for you. I'll get to that in a minute.

I am familiar with the Winchester, as we have a 9422M in the family, at my son's home, and he is in the process of installing the Williams sight you mention, if it's the WGRS, as I think it is. That's the sight I want to put on whatever I buy if I can, because of its compact size. And I'm a big Winchester fan, having recently acquired a 94 in .44 Mag, on which I'm installing the XS Ghost Ring Hunting Sight set. I want to gain a lot of experience with the ghost ring aperture sight setup, in order to be better qualified to do well with my .44 Mag when the coyotes come around, which is the reason I own it (plus, I just like owning a rifle so deeply imbedded in our country's history). If our 9422 had been a .22 LR instead of .22 Magnum, it'd still be at my house and I wouldn't be looking for a .22. ;-)

I've heard nothing but good things about the Marlin, but never handled or shot one. If I got a Marlin, it would have to be the model you have, as I don't want the long barrel.

I handled a used version of the Remington 572 pump at a gun show yesterday, and this one fascinates me. And, here's my question to you. How would you rate this Remington? Also yesterday at the gun show I sold my son's Remington Speedmaster which he came by used and abused, and neither he nor I liked the gun very much. Then, somewhere, I saw it referred to as "the automatic version of the 572 Fieldmaster." I'd been very interested in the 572 until I saw this, and it kind of turned me off. But of course, as I said, the Speedmaster that we sold had really been used and abused, and we don't do our guns that way. Maybe, starting with a new, or like new, one and taking care of it, it would be all right. That's why I would like to know how yours has done for you.

I wanted to consider the Taurus Model 62, the Winchester copy, but I assume there's no way to mount a receiver mounted aperture sight on it.

I will try some of the Federal Champion ammo. Thanks for the detailed report on it.

Thanks again for your very thorough response, and if you see this, and can tell me how you would rate your Remington, that too would be greatly appreciated.

eljay
 
#7 ·
Gismo said:
Even if you could get a Winchester, it has the same type of reciever that the Henry has. Its just dovetailed for tip off rings. The Marlin is your best bet.
Yes, but I believe that the Williams WGRS sight comes in a version that attaches directly to the grooved receiver, which would do what I want. I also believe there's an outfit up north, Boston, I believe, that makes an aperture sight to do the same thing. Please tell me if I'm wrong about this.

eljay
 
#8 ·
eljay said:
Yes, but I believe that the Williams WGRS sight comes in a version that attaches directly to the grooved receiver, which would do what I want. I also believe there's an outfit up north, Boston, I believe, that makes an aperture sight to do the same thing. Please tell me if I'm wrong about this.

eljay
I was thinking thats why you didn't want the Henry. Its made the same way. Henry also has a nice looking pump too.

http://www.henryrepeating.com/h003tm_pump_octagon.cfm
 
#9 ·
"I am familiar with the Winchester, as we have a 9422M in the family"

Dont let it get away! My Dad has both and the .22 Mag. Model 9422 is a good shooter. We found in Dads Winchester and our Marlin .22 Mag. that Winchester was the most accurate ammunition - again due to bullet diameter.
Somewhere of this board there may be some pictures of some .22 Magnum ammo we reloaded with Lyman cast bullets of larger diameter. The experiment worked very well and helped prove the point about other brands of .22 Magnum ammo having undersize bullets. But that is another story...

"I've heard nothing but good things about the Marlin"

True, but there are no flies on the Winchesters. The Marlin is a little heavier. When new they are a little harder to re-assemble after breking the action down. The Winchester action is just a little smoother right out of the box.
When it comes down to it I prefer the Marlin - I am talking bout the pre-rebound hammers here. You need to handle the new Marlin to ensure you like the feel.


"I handled a used version of the Remington 572 pump at a gun show yesterday,"
"That's why I would like to know how yours has done for you."
"can tell me how you would rate your Remington,"

The Remington is a real joy to handle and shoot. We bought it new (at a Furrs Grocery Store) and it has never failed to feed or fire.
The short stroke action make this rifle particularly exciting to plink with.
Almost all of our .22's have a sling (carry strap) on them and my wife places the strap over her shoulder with the rifle upside down, then uses both hands to load the magazine. Makes things easier while on "back forty Safari's".
I have long wanted to scope the Remington (2x) but my wife wants to keep it "as is."
Would we buy another? You bet! We can say the same about the Winchester and Marlin too.

This is getting off track but..
When my wife started to shoot she did not have any preconcieved ideas about action types or sights. We bought her one of everything - single shot, bolt action, lever action, pump and semi-auto. After she had played with them all she liked the Savage Crackshot best!
 
#10 ·
"Dont let it get away! My Dad has both and the .22 Mag. Model 9422 is a good shooter. We found in Dads Winchester and our Marlin .22 Mag. that Winchester was the most accurate ammunition - again due to bullet diameter."

Don't worry, it'll never leave the family, as my 94 .44 Mag. won't. We found the same about .22 Mag ammo, both in the 9422M and in my night hunter, a 10/22 Mag. When the 9422M was new I mounted a scope long enough to evaluate ammo for it, and the Winchester Super X JHP would do one ragged hole groups at 50 yards.

"This is getting off track but..
When my wife started to shoot she did not have any preconcieved ideas about action types or sights. We bought her one of everything - single shot, bolt action, lever action, pump and semi-auto. After she had played with them all she liked the Savage Crackshot best!"

I'll have to confess...I don't have the faintest notion what a Savage Crackshot is. What is that?

Thanks for the strong input on the Remington. I gotta like it!

A while ago I went to the Marlin page, and they don't show a short barreled 39. Only the one, with 24 inch barrel. I wonder how far back I'd have to go to find a short one like you have.

And I have to wonder why nobody has mentioned the Browning BL 22 lever action.

And a word about the Henrys...I have two friends who are professional gunsmiths, and they have not spoken well of the Henrys. Maybe right, maybe wrong, but I have to go with that, and not consider Henrys.

I really appreciate all the input I've gotten to this thread. And I hope to get more. Where I come from, knowledge is power, and what makes decisions good ones.

eljay
 
#12 ·
"I'll have to confess...I don't have the faintest notion what a Savage Crackshot is. What is that?"

The Savage version of the crackshot. My wife's was made in the 1970's, it is a comemorative. You can see a picture of the current rifle on the Savage web site. The current rifles are not as nice as the 1970's versions (and they are not as nice as the originals).

"And I have to wonder why nobody has mentioned the Browning BL 22 lever action."

The Browning BLR 22 does not have a good reputation out here. I know two or three people who have had them and did not keep them very long for various reasons - most centering around a lack of accuracy. Maybe another forum member has experiance with them?

"And a word about the Henrys..."

I have two friends with Henrys, they both like them very much. I have never handled one but these two sure like them.
 
#13 ·
The Savage is an old Falling block single shot .22. I have the same thing that my grandpa bought new. This one though is a Stevens little scout.... same gun.

I also love the Henry. I worked with a gunsmith for a long time. He does not like them, but only because they have an Alloy reciever. Mossberg has been making shotguns for years thay way, and they don't wear out. Yes the steel is better, but a Henry will out live you. The one thing I said to Carl (gunsmith I worked with) was that he never had one come in for repairs, and he had to admit that was true. Same with mossberg shotguns. Never broke other than the new alliminum saftey's.

Anyway.... have to weigh everything and get what you want.
 
#14 ·
Jim H said:
guys, what about the "Other Marlin Lever Action" the model 57 ? this was the short throw model, came in 22. lr & magnum, also in tube magazine or detachable magazine.
I don't know about it. In a few days I intend to talk to the dealers I've come to trust (I now live so far from a big city it's difficult. Go east 50 miles, west 50 miles, or north 50 or 100 miles), and I'll see what they've got. Beyond that, it would be the big gun show in Dallas the 25th of March.

Can you tell me any more about it? When produced, etc.?

eljay
 
#16 ·
Gismo said:
I also love the Henry. I worked with a gunsmith for a long time. He does not like them, but only because they have an Alloy reciever. Mossberg has been making shotguns for years thay way, and they don't wear out. Yes the steel is better, but a Henry will out live you. The one thing I said to Carl (gunsmith I worked with) was that he never had one come in for repairs, and he had to admit that was true. Same with mossberg shotguns. Never broke other than the new alliminum saftey's.

Anyway.... have to weigh everything and get what you want.
I would LOVE to just go out and get a Henry .22 lever action, put the Williams WGRS aperture on the scope mount grooves, and go to shooting it. I did handle one in a gun shop, and it felt great. But...I have heard that they have plastic parts in the action. Do you know if this is true or not?

eljay
 
#17 ·
This is totally false. They do have a plastic barrel band. If you get the Golden boy model the barrel band is brass. I have the octogan barrelled model and the barrel band is alluminum. I plan to make one out of steel this spring. Either that or but the brass barrel band and black it with brass black. Works like blueing but on brass.

No internal parts are plastic. I have had mine apart many times and do my own trigger work.
 
#18 ·
Gismo said:
The Marlin 57 was made from 1959-69. It sorta looks like a 10/22 but with a lever. I don't like the looks of it myself.
Yes, and then there's the Ruger 96/22, which for sure looks like a 10/22. Only good thing I know about it is the flush rotary 10- round magazine. Like that feature a lot, but that's all.

eljay
 
#19 ·
eljay said:
Yes, and then there's the Ruger 96/22, which for sure looks like a 10/22. Only good thing I know about it is the flush rotary 10- round magazine. Like that feature a lot, but that's all.

eljay
Only thing I don't like about them is they have such a bulky stock for a lever gun. And... the Henry holds 15 rounds.
 
#20 ·
Gismo said:
Only thing I don't like about them is they have such a bulky stock for a lever gun. And... the Henry holds 15 rounds.
Yes, but...(and I say this because I use a 10/22 Mag for my night shooter, living in the country, and have shot a LOT of varmint/predators with it)...with the Ruger, if I shoot six or so rounds, and then there's a short break in the action, I can stick in a spare magazine in the dark, with no problem. And I cannot reload a tubular feed that fast, or in the dark.

And another thing, and this is kind of silly...I can handle a 10/22 style gun for a number of nights running, and NEVER TOUCH STEEL! And I'm very picky about that. Easy to put up if I didn't get a shot that night.

But I agree with you about the bulk and width of the stock. I don't mind it too much on my magnum, which mounts a scope, but I wouldn't like it on a lever gun, I think.

eljay
 
#21 ·
Well, your used to it then. Why not get yourself a 10/22 and put a reciever mount sight on it. They make all nice ones for the 10/22. Looks nice mounted too.

I agree with what you said. I have two 10/22's and are much easier to load without looking even in the day when looking up in the tree's for squirrels.
 
#23 ·
Gismo said:
Well, your used to it then. Why not get yourself a 10/22 and put a reciever mount sight on it. They make all nice ones for the 10/22. Looks nice mounted too.

I agree with what you said. I have two 10/22's and are much easier to load without looking even in the day when looking up in the tree's for squirrels.
Well, this may sound silly, but I've got a young grandson who I've been designated to teach about shooting, gun safety, etc. We will start with a Daisy Red Ryder of my wife's, then it's on to .22, and I want either a slide or lever for this. Yes, a bolt would be good, but I want it for myself too, and I don't want a bolt. But it does sort of rule out a semi-auto, don't you think?

So, there you have it. Slide or lever for me, no semi-autos for him. Oh, and besides that, no scopes for him. And I like plinking with open sights, too, but my trifocals have trouble with stock open sights. Funny the things we do, right? ;-)

eljay
 
#24 ·
I like the henrys , but I would'nt look past the Rossi pumps either or even a little Browning Trombone (pump action ) I got a Old Remmington for my lad & we both get a lot of fun just plinking away with the iron sights Browning used to make a lever action .22 as well ,I seem to remember ? I think it came out under the Miruko brand .

Dave
 
#25 ·
Ok, this does change things. Have you thought about a single shot for your grandson to start with, or would you still rather go the lever action way? Since he will start with the Daisy, then maybe the lever gun would be better. He will be used to working the lever by then.
 
#26 ·
Here this should give you the info on the Marlin 56:



Marlin’s Levermatic Rifle Line
Offered Untraditional Design
by John Malloy
Contributing Editor to The New Gun Week

The Marlin LThis specimen is one of the first manufactured—a .22-caliber Model 56 with a 24-inch barrel and serial numbered in the 1,000 range. evermatic was a full-size rifle with a unique short-stroke lever action.
The Marlin Firearms Company has been known since 1881 for their line of traditionally-styled lever-action rifles. All Marlin lever guns made today look very much like the rifles that the company made in its earliest days. They have a certain characteristic look about them. They have outside hammers, finger levers that move about 90 degrees to operate the action, and have tubular magazines.
However, for a relatively short time in the late 1950s and 1960s, Marlin made lever-action rifles that were very different from the traditional pattern. With a speed of operation between the traditional lever action and the semi-automatic, these interesting guns were called the “Levermatic” rifles.
The Levermatic story actually began around 1950 with the Kessler Arms Company of Silver Creek, NY. The Kessler company made inexpensive bolt-action shotguns which were sold under many names. The Kessler guns were available at a time when the post-WWII interest in hunting and shooting had increased the demand for affordable firearms. The Kessler company only remained in business for about three years, but during that time, made over three-quarters of a million shotguns. Toward the end of its existence, the Kessler firm introduced a lever-action shotgun, called the Kessler “Lever-Matic.” The Lever-Matic gun was unique among lever-action firearms in that it required a very short stroke of the lever to operate the action. A mechanism with a special accelerator lever allowed this.
When the company went bankrupt, Numrich Arms Company of West Hurley, NY, bought all the remaining Kessler guns and parts. They had occasion to contact Marlin, and supplied complete guns and parts for study.
Opportunity
From that start, the Marlin Levermatic rifles developed. Marlin saw an opportunity to create a new niche in lever-action rifles—a hammerless short-stroke rifle with a different magazine type. Marlin negotiated a royalty agreement with the original inventors, and Marlin engineers Ewald Nichol and Tom Robinson developed the mechanism for the rifles. The short, smooth action used a cam-and-roller accelerator system that allowed a lever movement of less than 1½ inches. This short movement allowed the shooter’s hand to remain on the grip of the stock, and was much faster than a traditional lever action.
A close-up of the Levermatic action shows that, with the action closed, the rear of the bolt has tipped up to lock into the receiver opening. The action was strong and the rifle had a good reputation for accuracy.
There were five distinct variations of the Marlin Levermatic rifle.
The first Levermatic was the Model 56. Introduced in 1955, it was a .22-caliber rifle with a 7-shot box (“clip”) magazine. The new .22 provided a lower-priced alternative to the traditional Marlin Model 39 lever-action .22 rifle. However, the new Levermatic design had advantages of its own. The Model 56 had a one-piece stock, and was bedded into the stock with two bolts. The system was a good one for accuracy, and the new Marlin 56 quickly developed a reputation for excellent accuracy. It was furnished with traditional open sights, but to bring out the inherent accuracy, the Model 56 was drilled and tapped for both receiver sights and scope mounts.
The action was a strong one, with the rear of the bolt rising up to lock into the receiver opening. The locking system was reminiscent of that of the famed Savage 99. Another feature similar to the Savage was the manual safety, located behind the trigger, on the right side of the lever. Differing notably in its short 25-degree lever throw, the new Marlin seemed to be not only a good rifle in its own right, but perfect as a .22-caliber understudy for the 99.
Changes
Some changes occurred during the production of the Model 56. In 1956, the squared steel receiver was supplanted by a curved aluminum receiver that blended into the lines of the stock. At that time, a Monte Carlo stock became standard. The Model 56 initially came with a 24-inch barrel (which was later reduced to 22 inches), and weighed about 6¼ pounds. Furnished with a seven-shot magazine, the Model 56 could use optional 10-round and 12-round magazines which were also available.
With the action open (yes, that is as far as the short-stroke lever moves), the bolt tips down and moves rearward inside the receiver. The Model 56 had a box (clip) magazine. Other .22-caliber variants had tubular magazines.
The Model 56 performed well, and was a fairly popular rifle. In the period between 1955 and its discontinuance in 1964 a total of 31,523 were made.
In 1959, a special version of the Model 56 was made. Called the Model 56 DL “Clipper King,” the rifle came with a 4-power scope already mounted, and a 12-shot magazine was standard. On the barrel was the three-line legend, “Marlin Clipper King,” and a crown symbol. The buttplate was made of red hard rubber (instead of the standard black buttplate). The 56 DL came in a cardboard gun case, and also included were a tube of Marlin Rustopper grease, a game and target record book, a sighting-in guide, a game map, and 50 targets. Only 152 of the special Clipper King rifles were made. It is a little-known variation that may someday be of interest to collectors.
Nineteen-fifty-nine was a busy time for the Levermatic lineup. In addition to the 56 DL, Marlin also introduced two tubular-magazine short-stroke lever rifles. The Model 57 was chambered for .22 Short, Long or Long Rifle, and the Model 57M was made for the new .22 Winchester Magnum Rimfire (.22WMR) cartridge. After Winchester announced the .22 Magnum cartridge in 1959, Marlin required only a slight redesign of the basic Levermatic mechanism to adapt it to the new rimfire cartridge. Thus, Marlin was able to beat Winchester into production. Winchester did not market a rifle to shoot their new cartridge until 1960.
Tubular Magazines
The Model 57 rifles were introduced with curved aluminum receivers, but in 1960, Marlin reportedly reverted back to the squared steel receivers for the Levermatic rifles. The tubular-magazine variants of the Levermatic were more popular than the original box-magazine version. A total of 34,628 Model 57s (1959-1965) were made, while the even more popular 57M, in .22 Magnum (1959-1969) sold 66,889 rifles.
The basic Levermatic action was a strong one, and in 1963, Marlin decided to bring out a centerfire version of the Levermatic. This became the Marlin Model 62. With the centerfire Model 62, Marlin returned to the use of box magazines. In the first catalog listing, the calibers to be offered were .357 Magnum, .256 Winchester Magnum and .22 Remington Jet. (The .256 and .22 Jet were both necked-down versions of the .357.) Subsequent catalogs listed the .256 and the .22 Jet only.
In fact, though, only the .256 Winchester Magnum version was actually produced, and the Marlin Model 62 was the first rifle ever to be produced in that caliber. In some places, the Model 62 is often listed as having been available in .256 and .22 Jet, but the .22 Jet rifles were never made.
However, in 1966, a new caliber was added to the Levermatic line. The .30 Carbine cartridge had become very popular after World War II, but was available in little else beside surplus M1 Carbines. The .30 Carbine chambering was offered in the Model 62, which gave shooters a choice of a fast-operating, accurate rifle suitable for scope mounting.
The Model 62, in both calibers, was discontinued in 1969. The total production was 15,714 guns. The popularity of the .30 Carbine version is shown in the fact that, although it was introduced three years after the .256, over 50% (7,996) of the Model 62s sold were in the.30 Carbine chambering.
Serial Numbers
An interesting sidelight of the Levermatic story involves serial numbering. Today, we are used to the fact that passage of the Gun Control Act of 1968 required serial numbering of all firearms. However, when the Model 56 was introduced in 1955, federal law required serial numbering only of centerfire rifles, but not of .22 rimfire rifles.
At first, Marlin began numbering the Model 56 .22-caliber rifles, anyway. The company had always applied serial numbers to their Model 39 .22-caliber lever-action rifles, and it seemed natural to continue with the Levermatic. However, a Marlin study showed that it was not really cost-effective to continue the numbering, record-keeping and reporting procedures for the new rifles. By that time, serial numbers had been applied only to the earliest-production Model 56 rifles, and then the practice was discontinued.
As new Levermatic models—the Models 56DL, 57 and 57M—were added to the line, the same tradition of not applying serial numbers was continued. This tradition was continued when the Model 62 Levermatic was introduced. However, the Model 62 was a centerfire rifle. To their embarrassment, after about 4,000 Model 62 rifles had been shipped without serial numbers, Marlin belatedly realized that they had been in violation of the law. A recall program was initiated, and owners could return their rifles for serial numbering. Even at the time of this writing, apparently some of the unnumbered centerfire Levermatics have not been returned. Present owners can still contact Marlin for procedures to have their guns numbered.
The Levermatic rifle is an interesting sidelight in the offerings of the Marlin company. It offered an innovative new action type for a .22 rifle, with a fast action and excellent accuracy. It was in the forefront to offer the .22 Magnum when that cartridge was announced. It was the first rifle ever to chamber the new .256 Winchester Magnum. In a niche of their own, the Levermatic variations were fairly popular, and almost 150,000 were made.
The Marlin Levermatic rifle, in all its different variations, is an interesting gun.

Malloy tries out a Marlin Model 56 Levermatic and
finds it to be a fast-handling rifle with good accuracy.
Reprinted by Permission from The New Gun Week (Thanks to Joe Tartaro and John Krull)
Vol. 40 Issue 1811 - Jan. 1. 2005
Visit Gun Week on the web at www.gunweek.com
 
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