I have long been an advocate of patterning my shotguns and have been amazed at the findings. Originally I tested until I was satisfied then never bothered to do it further. But with constant changes in shell technology I find it interesting to test when new stuff comes out. Case in point, Remington HS in 2 3/4" 12 ga out performs any steel loads I have ever tested and the 3" HS. In the my .410 Mossberg the 2 1/2" shells shoot far tighter patterns than the 3". Bob Brister wrote this years ago but I figured technology had made them better... not.
Pattern testing can be costly but in the long run I think it pays. If nothing else, it gives me confidence.

Do any of you pattern test and if so, what do you think?

I do. Until I find a load that suits my need. I'm involved with my sons new 870 20 gauge now. We are still looking at this time. Need to order a couple of choke tubes for it. It came with modified only.

I may start reloading shotshells again for this one. My son likes to shoot alot.

Cheezywan

I'm guilty of being a real late bloomer on pattern testing. I have recently started though using my favorite shotgun first. It's time consuming for sure.

That's an interesting observation on the .410 shells. I've shyed away from the 2-1/2" shells. Always assumed the 3" would perform better. Thanks for the wakeup call.

O'Connersun sir/maam,

I have been using scrap cardboard from my day job for this work. 30 inch circles with a piece of string and a magic marker.

How do you go about it?

A good friend came here once with his Browning BPS and a box of his chosen "turkey loads". He did the pellet count thing with those long 3 inch shells and came up "short".

We were both curious. I fired one shot with my favorite pheasant handload(2 3/4" hull). It made the grade. I made a mental note to not do that again. We are still very good friends. Just a story.

Cheezywan

If you reload, I might have some comments....Regards, James

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Dixie Slugs of Old Town Hammock, Florida
"Home of the Dixie Terminator Slug"

Compared to the loss of one wounded game bird, patterning is cheap. I consider it a matter of ethics.

It would seem extreme to some, but when I have a new batch of powder with a different lot number at least eight will be checked on paper.

James, do you have any insight on how copper plated shot compares to nickel plated? Given the price increase on nickel plated shot, copper is starting to look mighty attractive.

__________________
"There are three kinds of men:
The ones that learn by reading.
The few who learn by observation.
The rest of them have to pee on the
electric fence and learn for themselves."
Will Rogers

Chezzy, I use resin paper from the hardware store. I have a test stand at my farm that is sort of permanant and have a piece of dowell at the bottom with the paper on it. After once shooting to low and messing up a whole roll of paper I built a shield out of flashing, several layers thick. I have a stick 15" long with a nail in one end and a pencil in the other, sort of a compass. Also have a 30" circle of cardboard that I use, centering each over the pattern. I then mark each hole with a marker and count. Usually use a chart for load count but reloads I dump dozen or so shot charges and count each, then average.
Numbers do not mean as much to me as the look of the pattern and the marker helps me see it better. Can the target escape the carnage? At one time I had a penetration box like Brister used and I used wet paper in it. Used it a lot when steel became mandatory but not much since.
I don't reload much now but in the 1980's I created a 20 ga 2 3/4" load that was absolutely deadly on ducks. Don't have my notes on it now but I recall it pushed an 1 1/8 load (by equiv) of Lawrence copper plated #6 shot near 1200fps and filled a 40" wide pattern board at 40 yds. Do not recall the penetration results but I ran the test. The bottom line was that it out shot all of my other guns, 12 and 20 gauge with any #6 load. It was probably a bit hot for the Browning 2000 I used them in but I don't use either any more.

Let's do some straight talk about shot. I was fortunate indeed to know some of the fine shotgunners like Don Zutz and others. There has been a great deal of hype about the various types of shot...but, let's dwell on the following: hard high antimony black shot, copper plated shot, and niclel plated shot.
(1) Hard high antimony shot....with the proper use of buffer, this shot is excellent within 40 yards.....some will say farther.
(2) Copper plated shot...Copper plated shot is equal! Just because it is copper plated, does not mean it is hard inside. Be sure the copper plated shot is also hard inside. In shot sizes #4 and larger, this type shines. But there is another reason often overlooked with plated shot. Copper/nickel plate shot will penetrate feathers and heavy down better....it is slicker. This was proved beyond the shadow of a doubt when we saw equal weight and size shot at equal velocity. The copper pentrated much better in feathers and down.
(3) Nickel plated shot is harder! the lead shot has to be copper plated first and then nickel plated. It is even slicker that copper. It is the shot to use on distance targets.
The question arises....is it worth the money? I think so with turkey birds. Oh. I know you are going to say that you shoot them in the head with # 7 1/2 in a .410! I have seen gobblers in full strut, facing the hunter at 40 yards, and black lead shot glance off the feathers a body shot....that would not have happened with Nickel shot.
Patterns....so, we are saying a proper load with a heavy duty wad and a good buffer...all pattern close. The problem arises in the fact most factory black shot loads are not as good as the reloader can put together. First of all is the quality of the black shot....that's why buffer is in it. Next problem is that at the factory the buffer and shot is pre mixed in the hopper. As the loading machine vibrates, the heavy shot migrates to the botteon of the hopper...you know what happens then. The reloader drops the shot and then vibrates the buffer around the shot...the proper way.
So...it all boils down to what you want your load to do. We make for our own use a 12 ga 3" Magniun that has 2 ozs of #3 nickel plated shot, in a heavy wad made for steel shot, buffered with pure Tefflon buffer. The wads a dusted with Motor Mica. Tha load shoots very tight patterns and retains 3 ft lb/per pellet out beyond 60 honest yards. It will ahmmer a turkey down.
Another way to tighten patterns with shot from #4 up, is the drop the velocity below the speed of sound....then each pellet will not have a shock wave to hit the adjoining pellet....but it only works on shot #4 and above.
Regards, James

__________________
Dixie Slugs of Old Town Hammock, Florida
"Home of the Dixie Terminator Slug"

You've hit the nail on the head there James, penetration is my main reason for using N/P shot.

There is, however, a side benefit to plated shot which few shooters give any thought to and that is the potential for improved patterns. Of the guns I own, all but one benefits from the use of plated shot and that one patterns like a dented blunderbuss regardless of the load. As Albert explained it to me years ago, plated shot has a greater resistance to deforming during setback and transition through the forcing cone and choke. Now I've no doubt you are most likely aware of this James, I simply wanted to put it out there for those who still poo-poo the idea and expense of plated shot. To me one lost bird is far more expensive than an eleven pound bag of N/P shot.

You mentioned that copper plated shot can have either a hard or soft lead core. Is there a way to determine which is which? Will it say on the bag what the lead is composed of?

I also find your subsonic concept of interest. I am stumped though, by "#4 and above" is it safe to assume that you mean #4's thru #8's? Of great importance to me though, what is the penetration potential of such a load? My main concern would focus on dove and upland birds.

__________________
"There are three kinds of men:
The ones that learn by reading.
The few who learn by observation.
The rest of them have to pee on the
electric fence and learn for themselves."
Will Rogers

I agree with you completely on tighter patterns, but that as you say, comes from less deformation of the shot with harder shot.
As for subsonic loads, I did not make myself clear....I mean with #4 and larger shot. They retain velocity better and thus energy futher out. A study of velocity for different pellet size was covered very well by Don Zutz and can be checked by various punblications. The concept of high density and lower velocity is very interesting and should be looked into.
When you get into bird loads, very few are higher than 100'....or a little over 30 yards. Since, most use smaller shot, velocity does help! However on larger birds, the copper/nickel will help, especially in late season when the feathers may be thicker.
Regards, James

__________________
Dixie Slugs of Old Town Hammock, Florida
"Home of the Dixie Terminator Slug"

I'm clear on the subsonic loads now. And thanks for the tip on using steel compatible wads. I've been getting the itch to try my hand at turkeys and this gives me yet another recipe option.

__________________
"There are three kinds of men:
The ones that learn by reading.
The few who learn by observation.
The rest of them have to pee on the
electric fence and learn for themselves."
Will Rogers

That was an interesting post.

I want to make up some loads for coyotes and foxes, that are running all over our hunting spots, but here in NJ, you just cannot pull out the .243 and go.

I managed to call several into bow range, and got one , but I think an ounce of BB's would bring my average up. The cost on factory loads, when I can find them is kind of steep, and usually only in 3" loads.

Where can you get larger lead shot sizes? 2's, BB's, etc?

You might want to check Ballistic Products Inc. They have some excellent nickel shot in the large sizes. Telephone #1-888-273-5623 or www.ballisticproducts.com
Regards, James

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Dixie Slugs of Old Town Hammock, Florida
"Home of the Dixie Terminator Slug"

Tman, dig around in the 'Tech Notes' a little. I think Marshall had an article on calling in coyotes and busting them with #2 lead, I think.

Good luck and whack a few for the rest of us......

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MikeG