I am well aware that by opening this thread on turky guns....that it opens a real can of worms! There is so much hype out there that it may be dealing with programed mindsets!
So, let's start at a beginning! For many, many years there were hundreds of turkey birds kille with the standard "High Power" 12 bore load of 3 3/4 - 1 1/4 oz of shot. Many turkey hunters liked #5 shot...as I did. Back when WW came out with the 12 bore 3" gun it was aimed at waterfowl.....and threw 1 5/8 oz of copper plated #4 shot. In the 12 - 3" guns, that loads still puts more pellets in the center core that any other weight.
Now...we see all kinds of sales hype indeed. We see sales hype about 12 bore 3 1/2" guns.....and there is some loads that work well indeed!
Now....As I have said many times that it is not important how many pellets is in a load...but very important how many pellets the load puts in a very dense center core pattern!
It seems like a cult now that say that you must shoot a turkey in the head....indeed? While the head and neck area are vital, I shoot for the body also with an aiming point were the beard comes out.
Now Friends, I have seen small shot (#6's) skip off a big gobbler in facing full strut at 40 yards! I have proven to myself that I want a pellet energy of at least 3.00 ft lbs at a impact distance of 40 yards. That energy will kill even if it's a body shot! You will get that with #4 shot with a muzzle velocity of at least 1135'/"! A #6 shot will not reach that even with a velocity of 1330'/" and a #5 would be at would be good compromise.
Then we get into the specialized choke tubes! We see tubes in 12 bore that run all the way down to .660". The best constriction I have seen for #4 shot is around .675" with is close to the old LR choke at .680".....but those chokes must have at least a 1/3 length that is parallel!
There is a push going on for some shot that is even heavier that lead shot! That's all well an good but remember there will be less pellet count than lead shot.
The quality of the shot, and its style, is most important. There is some copper plated shot that is too soft inside! The best we have found in copper plated shot (at the present time) for the relaoder is from Ballistic Products Inc. The best factory copper plated shot is in the Federal shells.
Turkey loads really come into prime when loaded by a careful reloader. There are some great heavy walled wads, designed for steel shot, that make outstanding turkey loads. That can be discussed later indeed.
There is also a cult tread for turkey barrels as short as 21"....indeed? In order to take full advantage, for the reloader, using slow burn powders....at leat a 26" barrel is needed. I can hear the teeth gnashing out there now!
Now...for the reloader! Your best center core patterns will be at a velocity of 1150'/" to 1175'/" and with at least #5 shot and better with #4 shot. At that velocity there will be little shock waves per pellet to hit the adjoining pellet. As I said before, the impact energy will be high enough at 40 yards or more.
These are just thoughts that come from experience along the "Way"...James

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Dixie Slugs of Old Town Hammock, Florida
"Home of the Dixie Terminator Slug"

I bought several dedicated turkey guns, a Rem 870 three inch express, then the same model 3.5 inch express, which by the way beat the dickens out of me. After shooting my old hunting partners Mossberg 835 I sold the Remington and bought a ported Mossberg 835 and put my old aimpoint 5000 on it. This gun has killed turkeys out to 60 yards with head and neck shots.

My old shooting partner has killed several now with standard pheasent loads in his at closer ranges. He's having some shoulder problems and recoil is starting to bother him. With our present turkey population so high you can simply road hunt and most are now shot at close ranges. I took the aimpoint off of mine last year and just use the open fire sights that came on it. I think your right James, but sure don't want to cripple all the high tech turkey equipment sales going on.

Here's my outfit. I'm afraid to lay it down in the woods, with my poor eyesight I'd probably loose it.

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Bob from Idaho

I had hunted turkeybirds for 30 years and more before I was aware that my gun wasn't a "Turkey Gun". Even now, armed with that knowledge, I still use the same shotgun. An 2 3/4", full-choked JC Higgins pump, all that I could afford in 1960. It's killed a lot of birds. First handload for it was 1 1/2 ounce of #2 shot with a healthy dose of AL-7. No plastic shotcups back then. I still load 1 1/2 ounces of #2s or #4s at around 1,200 FPS. Turkeys don't seem to know I don't have a Turkey Gun.

DC

I'd be embarrassed to show up with my equipment to any TV show.... short barreled 870, blued, glossy stock, and whatever random 7 1/2 / 8 / 9s generic clay target loads I can find in 2 3/4 inch shells! I do have screw in choke tubes.

Within the ranges I've used it at, the swarm of little shot will pretty well take their heads off. Even got a turkey once while I was wearing white tennis shoes

Oh well!!!! Sometimes ignorance is bliss..... I will say, we have LOTS of turkeys, and one hanging up at long range concerns me not in the least.

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MikeG

One of the greatest turkey hunters I ever knew, Junnie Duncan, used a 410.....but was the greatest calller I ever knew....used his pipe stem for calling......of course, he was an exception!
Regards, James

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Dixie Slugs of Old Town Hammock, Florida
"Home of the Dixie Terminator Slug"

A can of worms indeed.

I will start by saying that I do not reload shotshells. All my turkey guns (all 9 of them) are fed a strict diet of factory fodder. That being said, I fire probably as many turkey shotshells at patterning boards in one year as most guys will in 3 lifetimes. One thing is certain.......there are no absolutes. I have seen shell/gun/choke combos that should have worked that didn't. I've seen ones that should not have that were complete monsters. Every combo I test (40 yards is the standard but some get tested to 60 or 70), I document with velocites, 10" circle densitied and 3" core densities. The 10" pattern is sufficient data to weed good patterns from bad. The 3" core is used to finely tweek guns with optics. I do not test the "harder than gun steel" heavy shots. Not interested in potentially damaging my guns. I have tested the Winchester High Density stuff. I have run the gamut with choke tubes in 10, 12 and 20 gauges. Here's a few observations I've made:

... For the majority of guys who limit shots to 40 yards and under, #6 shot is nearly always provides the most pellets on target. To 40 yards 4's, 5's and 6's will all kill with equal authority. There will almost always be more 6's (generally way more) where they need to be.

... #5 shot will gain you 5-10 yards killing power over the 6's. #4 shot will give you 5-10 yards extra killing power over the 5's. Problems arise when the pattern density at distances beyond 40 yards are not sufficient to utilize the retained per-pellet energy of the coarser shot. I've seen a couple guns that were O'K. to shoot 50 yards with #5 shot. I've never seen a 60 yard pattern of #4 shot that I'd feel comfortable taking a responsible shot at a turkey with.

... The most effective "sight-in" puts the 3" core center neck, leaving the rest of the 10" center pattern impacting the head down to the lower neck. I would not reccommend body shooting for anyone using shot smaller than #2. You may get lucky....you may not.

... The Winchester High Density shot (in my tests) puts about 13-15% more pellets on target than comparable lead loads even though it has fewer pellets.

... Choke tubes with ample parallel constriction are superior.

... Winchester Supreme HV (lead) shotshells consistently out-perform the others when using a ported choke tube.

... Reload or not, 26" is the best trade-off between velocity and portability. Factory shotshell powder does not all burn in a 21" barrel. Shoot one at dusk if you don't believe it.

... Sometimes a shotshell with less shot will put more pellets on target than a heavier payload. My BPS 10 ga. is one of them. Sometimes a shotshell with a heavier payload will beat all the lighter shot charge options. My Super X2 with a 3 1/2 load beats all the 2 3/4" and 3" loads. You'll never know until you try.

... Over-choking is generally worse than under-choking. Pellet deformation is not your friend.

... Individual results may vary.

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"Too much gun always beats the alternative."
Elmer Keith

I used to use my 20ga. A-5 with 3" load of #4's. Of course, at the time that was the only shotgun I had (except for the .410 bolt action and the 20 ga. crackbarrel that I had grown out of). I now have a Mossberg 535 12 ga. that I would probably use, but I haven't turkey hunted in years.

My preferred formula consists of full-choked 12-gauge 3" [factory] loads of either 1-7/8 or 2 oz. of #5 or #4 lead travelling at ~1200 fps. I will admit, though, that I have taken turkeys with a variety of ammunition including 2-3/4" shells loaded with 1-3/8 or 1-1/2 oz. of #6's and 1-1/4 oz. of #4's. (I only used the 2-3/4" shells when I had an only-2-3/4" shotgun. That gun also had a fixed modified choke, but it was more like a full.)

I try to limit my shots to close range shots, preferably head and neck, but I have shot a turkey or two "on the wing." (I think that's a legal no-no in probably every state. Shhhhhhhhhh . . . . . . )

I'm considering trying turkey hunting with a centerfire rifle now.

Refreshing to know I'm not the only one that hasn't bought into the hype and uses an old but trusted gun. Our turkey population is quite healthy, and I haven't had any problems taking them with an old Remington pump full choke and 2 3/4" shells. Half the time I'm out there in my jeans, RedWing boots, and a Wisconsin smoking jacket (my favorite flannel shirt) Counted over twenty of them struttin' and feeding at the edge of our woods this morning.

I turkey hunt and if I ever shoot at one and miss or wound I will think about my load and gun. Until then I will continue to hunt the things as much as I can. I hope to shoot one before I die.

I kinda backed out of here when I saw the start of head-shooting only begin. It's been about 50 years since I killed my first turkey-bird. I have settled on a certain recipe for my turkey hunting.
When I retired from the gun and ammo companies, I brought with me hundreds of pattern tests they had done over the years with all matter of chokes, pellet size, and gauges. There are many mis-understandings about loads and patterns. It is my opinion that neck-shooting allows for many mistakes in yardage. A load that might perform at 25/30 yards may fail at 40/45 yards. I for one, want a load that will still kill clean at 45 yards with a body shot if needed. From what I have seen over the years, any load that would have killed a Canadian goose would also kill a turkey bird with a body shot at the same impact distance....speaking of lead shot. But...That's just one man's thoughts. It all boils down to pellert energy...no matter what to game is. If the hunter is satisfied with less than 3 ft lbs per pellet at impact distance...then thats up to the hunter.
These have just been thoughts that have developed over the years.
Regards, James

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Dixie Slugs of Old Town Hammock, Florida
"Home of the Dixie Terminator Slug"

At 45 yards, you are basically limiting your options to #2 shot to reliably kill gobblers with a body shot. You can smoke a turkey with a body shot of #2's farther than you can do the same with a head/neck shot of #6's. Problem is..........#2 shot was outlawed in my home state about 15 years ago.

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"Too much gun always beats the alternative."
Elmer Keith

Interesting indeed! A #4 copper plate or nickle plate starting at 1185'/" still has 3.00 ft lbs energy at 60 yards.....which has been my energy requirement for many years. Nash Buckingham, maybe the greatest waterfowl shot of all time....told me he liked the 1 5/8 oz of Western Copper Lubaloy shotshell best in the 12 ga 3" mag. His guns had Becker choke design, as does my .675" extended 3" choke tube.
One of my all time favorite longer range load in 12 ga 3" has been/is 1 3/4 ounce of nickle plate #3 in a BPI LBC wad, PR's teflon buffer and on top of 32.5 grs of Steel powder (as per Alliant). That load has 1176'/" MV and 11,380 psi. (26" barrel)with a custom extended .675" constriction. The wads are dusted with Motor Mica.
However, one should use what they think is best!
Regards, James

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Dixie Slugs of Old Town Hammock, Florida
"Home of the Dixie Terminator Slug"

Consensus seems to run that 2 1/2 ft/lbs of per pellet energy is required to reliably penetrate a turkey's head & neck. I cannot say from a scientific data standpoint whether the additional 1/2 ft/lb of per-pellet energy (at 3 ft/lbs) would reliably penetrate through a mat of heavy feathers, a couple inches of breast meat and sufficiently enter the chest cavity. My intuition says "no".

But like you said.........

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"Too much gun always beats the alternative."
Elmer Keith

My turkey gun is a nice, tight, 50 year-old Spanish 12 ga. SxS choked modified/full. Load is Remington 2.75" Express, #5 shot. Any turkey coming inside 50 yards has roosted for the last time, and I look like the antique, woodsy, good ol' boy I am when I'm carrying it.

My turkey gun is my duck gun which is also my competition open gun, and shockingly enough, its also my trap/skeet/sporting clays gun when I'm giving my Red Label a break.

Its a Rem 11-87 Special Purpose 3" 12 gauge. Its only killed a couple turkeys, and it was done with 3" 1 1/4 oz #4 steel at 1550 FPS at a mere 20 yards.

I've patterned the Winchester Supreme 2oz #5s and I've been very pleased. I've just never killed a turkey when I was turkey hunting. Its always happened when I was pheasant or coyote hunting.

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Buy American, it may be your own job you are saving.
UTU, TY&E Service, BNSF

I'll confess in my ignorance I've been letting them get 20 or so steps away before I blast them with skeet loads! Have never patterned anything or tried longer shots.

It sounds like working up loads for 50-60 yard shots is quite an art form.

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MikeG

That ain't ignorance, my friend. That's woodsmanship and knowing the limitations of your setup.

And addicting, too.

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"Too much gun always beats the alternative."
Elmer Keith

I stick to head shots since I don't like picking shot out of the meat. I've shot a few that have had more than one type/size of shot in the meat from others who've tried to stretch the range of their body shots.

The fact that there has been turkey birds killed that had smaller shot in the body is the exact reason I talk about the heavy shot. I have even killed deer that had bird shot or an arrow point in them....and why I suggest the 3.00 ft lbs of energy.
Just because we have seen this does not mean that larger shot will not work. Those of us the killed Canadian geese (in the old days of lead shot) know first hand what it takes to penetrate all that down, feathers, and muscle indeed.
Now...again, I am not trying to tell the hunter what to use! I am only making some suggestions based on many years of burning powder.
There are many hunters that have never paterned their guns! They make get away with that out to 30 yards or so....but there is a real difference in a scatter-gun and a high peformance gun indeed.
In the "Shotshell Handbook - Third Edition" there is a vey fine article by Ton Roster - "Advanced 12 and 20 Gauge Huntig Loads"....that covers high performance shotgun loads indeed. He explains in details some of his findings. We loaded shells based on Tom's findings and I assure you that he knew what he was talking about!
There are other articles by Francis Sell and Don Zutz that make worthwhile reading. Also in the same "Shotshell Handbook" there is a section that shows the ft lb of shot at various velocity and distance.
All three of these older writers spent time with the various factory boys that were involved on a daily basis in the ballistic house....you do not see that today indeed with the Hype writers.
Again...the statements made here on this thread hace been just thoughts.
Regards, James

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Dixie Slugs of Old Town Hammock, Florida
"Home of the Dixie Terminator Slug"