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  #1  
Old 09-23-2010, 10:23 AM
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Vintage Belgium double barrel identification


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I have a vintage double barrel that I have a few questions about. What I (think) know so far is:
- proof house was Liège (ELG stamp)
- was made in Belgium
- 12 gauge, 70mm (2 3/4" shell) chamber
- says "goverment tested for smokeless powder" on top of barrels
- nitro proof barrels

Questions that I have:

1. When was it made?
2. It has an "E" in a diamond stamp on side of breech ... what company made it?
3. It has 25" barrels ... has it been cut down? It has the brass front bead sight and doesn't look like it...
4. It is in great shape with no corrosion or scratches and the petina on both the steel and woods is fabulous... what is it's rough current value?
5. Does it have damascus barrels (laminated steel)?






Any help would be appreciated.

Last edited by cdncowboy; 09-23-2010 at 11:39 AM.
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  #2  
Old 09-23-2010, 10:52 AM
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Are you sure that it is damascus? There are barrels with a damascus pattern, FYI, if you did not know that.
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Old 09-23-2010, 11:32 AM
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Hi Mike,
I'm not sure they are Damascus actually. I thought they were based on website info. I read but at this point I am really unsure about mostly everything about it I think I may have gotten the year wrong also as I found conflicting stamp marks...
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Old 09-23-2010, 06:12 PM
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There is a test for Damascus involving a drop of acid or something else (in an inconspicuous spot like under the forend) but I can't think of what it is, offhand.

Nitro proof and damascus would seem like an uncommon combination, but never say never. I hope someone else will chime in with more info.
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Old 09-23-2010, 09:23 PM
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I can't make out all the markings, but if you look here:

http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html

You might get a little more information. That sheet also has Belgian Date Codes.

Another good Proof Mark booklet ican be found here:

http://www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com/archives/Proofmarks.pdf

That one has marks from several countries.

DC
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Old 09-24-2010, 06:18 AM
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Thanks Mike and DC for the input. After doing more digging I don't think they are Damascus barrels or at least not the ones fabricated by twisting the iron around a mandrel... as I think that I should be able to visibly see the wrapping (spiral) marks on the barrel and I don't see any.

Very confusing because in the Damascus proofmark link DC provided all the symbols on the barrel are referenced there. So it must be Damascus but did Damascus make solid steel barrels because that appears to be what I have?

That link verifies my findings that the proof house was Liège (ELG stamp). I am even more confused about the manufacture date because according to the link: 1 stamp on it says "used until 1924" while another stamp on it says "used from 1924 to present" ... so I thought it must be made in 1924 ... BUT ... then I look up the controller of proof symbol which is clearly indicated by a star above an "S" and the date starts at 1952 so very contradicting symbols with regards to dating it.
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Old 09-24-2010, 11:26 AM
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Damascus is not someone that made barrels, it is the name of a type of steel. For cutting instruments it is made by heating one or more types of steel to a white or welding heat and hammer forging the metals together. Reheating and folding the forged strip and reforging can produce some very interesting patterns in the finished product. Damascus barrels were made by wrapping strips of steel around a mandrel, again heating to a white or "welding" heat and forging the strips together to form a solid tube. The problem lies in the fact that the "weld" may not be perfect, or thru the years rust may have penetrated a seam and produced a weak spot. That is why damascus barreled guns should be retired--you don't want to be the unlucky cuss holding the gun IF it lets go. For what it's worth your barrels do not appear to show the typical spiral pattern found in damascus barrels, they appear to be fluid steel. Really can't say without personal examination. Being nitro proofed you're probably safe, but you should have the gun examined by a competent gunsmith. Goatwhiskers the Elder
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Old 09-24-2010, 07:22 PM
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"Very confusing because in the Damascus proofmark link DC provided all the symbols on the barrel are referenced there. So it must be Damascus but did Damascus make solid steel barrels because that appears to be what I have?"

Proofmarks in that document don't indicate Damascus barrels. The overprint "DAMASCUSBARRELS" indicates the website. That document covers most all Belgian Proof Marks, Damascus and Fluid Steel.

Another document you might find useful here:

http://damascus-barrels.com/files/Be...rade_Marks.pdf

Covers the various manufacturers and their marks. Might tell you who made the gun.

DC
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Old 09-25-2010, 05:32 AM
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Thanks for the feedback Goatwhiskers and great link DC.

I have figured out that it is made by Jean Delcour-Dupont by the letter "D" with a rounded crown over it that is on each barrel.

I am narrowing the gap but still haven't figured out what the "E" in a diamond symbol is on the side of the breech. Maybe that is the model now that I know who made it. The year still escapes me as well.
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