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  #1  
Old 12-20-2003, 11:22 AM
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Location: So.IL
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Dangerous game slugs


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I would like to hear from anyone with experience with the dangerous game slugs or similar slugs. I intend to start loading 20 ga. slugs for the H+R Ultra slug gun.

Another question about pressures, will the Ultra's heavy barrel withstand more pressure than a regular (thin) barrel? Several in my hunting group shoot the Ultra's and we were wondering if we could increase the performance of our slug guns slightly by using "hot" loads. If so where could we find data? I understand the liability issues of increasing the loads but optmising our slugs is what we want. Any reply's will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Jim
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  #2  
Old 12-20-2003, 04:37 PM
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Location: Virginia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LUV2_HUNT
I would like to hear from anyone with experience with the dangerous game slugs or similar slugs. I intend to start loading 20 ga. slugs for the H+R Ultra slug gun.

Another question about pressures, will the Ultra's heavy barrel withstand more pressure than a regular (thin) barrel? Several in my hunting group shoot the Ultra's and we were wondering if we could increase the performance of our slug guns slightly by using "hot" loads. If so where could we find data? I understand the liability issues of increasing the loads but optmising our slugs is what we want. Any reply's will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Jim
Jim,

I shoot the H & R 20 ga. slug gun also. You're shooting about a 1 inch long 45 ca. slug (Win. SuperX 2-3/4 shell). This thing tears the heck out of a 2 inch thick piece of plywood at 75 yards. The Federal 3inch shell has a little more pep than the 2-3/4 but I can't get any more accuracy from it. I'm sure someone can give info on the loading data but is a "hotter load" going to be as accuate as the current i factory loads (which has plenty of knock down power at 75 yards). Good luck! That NEF/H&R slugger is a good gun. Kevin
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  #3  
Old 12-21-2003, 07:57 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Molasses Junction, FL
Posts: 396
Thumbs up Check OUT The Dixie Terminator Slugs

Quote:
Originally Posted by LUV2_HUNT
I would like to hear from anyone with experience with the dangerous game slugs or similar slugs. I intend to start loading 20 ga. slugs for the H+R Ultra slug gun.

Thanks Jim

Jim, have a look at James Gates' notes about his "Dixie Terminator" 12ga slugs. He's got a new 20ga version on the drawing board and should have time to sort it out after this hunting season - ready for next Fall. It's basically just a HUGE Hard Cast BULLET loaded to shotgun pressures, for fully rifled shotgun barrels.

The 12ga version is .73 caliber - 3/4" long, with a 1/2" meplat - 745gr or about 1-3/4oz weight. It has one lube groove and a crimp groove for loading in brass hulls if you wish. Velocity is right at 1200ft/sec. I don't know what the ft/lbs specs would be for such a heavy slug at this velocity, but it's gotta' be HUGE!

Early test results indicate it'll handle 'bout anything you can hit with it.

This one should be very popular with Rangers & State Troopers in Alaska and anywhere else Grizzlies are frequently encountered.

GOOD LUCK!
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  #4  
Old 12-21-2003, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kramsey
Jim,

I shoot the H & R 20 ga. slug gun also. You're shooting about a 1 inch long 45 ca. slug (Win. SuperX 2-3/4 shell). This thing tears the heck out of a 2 inch thick piece of plywood at 75 yards. The Federal 3inch shell has a little more pep than the 2-3/4 but I can't get any more accuracy from it. I'm sure someone can give info on the loading data but is a "hotter load" going to be as accuate as the current i factory loads (which has plenty of knock down power at 75 yards). Good luck! That NEF/H&R slugger is a good gun. Kevin
Kevin

I agree this NEF/H+R is a very good gun. I currently use German Brenneke's with very good results just looking for longer range. I've personally had some bad experiences (pass thru's with little damage) with some of the current sabot loads. I really don't want to step on anyones toes, I'm just looking for bigger and better, sort of a big bore fan ya know. I've seen mention of a "grizzly" slug but found no data. I want large frontal surface area (meplant?) and range.

Thanks Jim
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  #5  
Old 12-21-2003, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowge
Jim, have a look at James Gates' notes about his "Dixie Terminator" 12ga slugs. He's got a new 20ga version on the drawing board and should have time to sort it out after this hunting season - ready for next Fall. It's basically just a HUGE Hard Cast BULLET loaded to shotgun pressures, for fully rifled shotgun barrels.

The 12ga version is .73 caliber - 3/4" long, with a 1/2" meplat - 745gr or about 1-3/4oz weight. It has one lube groove and a crimp groove for loading in brass hulls if you wish. Velocity is right at 1200ft/sec. I don't know what the ft/lbs specs would be for such a heavy slug at this velocity, but it's gotta' be HUGE!

Early test results indicate it'll handle 'bout anything you can hit with it.

This one should be very popular with Rangers & State Troopers in Alaska and anywhere else Grizzlies are frequently encountered.

GOOD LUCK!
Can't wait to try some in my 20 ga., been reading some of his posts here.
Thanks
Jim
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  #6  
Old 12-21-2003, 02:02 PM
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Friends All..........Thanks for the comments on the Terminator slug line. We are now testing to see the accuracy results of bullet lube on the slugs rather than Ms Moly.
I know there are people waiting for me to ship these Terminators, but those who know me.....I will not release them until I know they are right. This Terminator is the Grandpa of all slugs for dangerous game.......when people's life may depend on them, they have to be right!
Please bear with me as we have some "Goodies" lined up!
Best Regards, James
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  #7  
Old 12-28-2003, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Gates
Friends All..........Thanks for the comments on the Terminator slug line. We are now testing to see the accuracy results of bullet lube on the slugs rather than Ms Moly.
I know there are people waiting for me to ship these Terminators, but those who know me.....I will not release them until I know they are right. This Terminator is the Grandpa of all slugs for dangerous game.......when people's life may depend on them, they have to be right!
Please bear with me as we have some "Goodies" lined up!
Best Regards, James
James, I would be real interested in ALL the information you can give me on those Terminator Slugs you have developed and been testing. I remember years back folks talking about slugs to be used in their shotguns for defense of big bears up North.

I seem to remember also some gun writer putting into print (mid 70's), tests that stated they lack enough penetration on a big bear. I must admit I haven't kept up with the shotgun world and slug developement in the past 10 years, as I use my shotgun for bird hunting, trap and sporting clays. So help me out please, because I am real curious about energy levels and penetration on big bears etc.
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  #8  
Old 12-29-2003, 06:07 AM
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2Bits and All.........They major problem with shotgun slugs for big and dangerous game in the past can be traced to the design of the slug having a deep hollow base and soft lead. These slugs work fairly well on soft thin skin game, but due to their softness and light weight gave no deep penetration. The original Brenneke slug worked fairly well, but still did not have the weight needed and could have been harder. There are designs being sold today that are called Dangerous Game Slugs that still do not have the weight and hardness needed.
When I started the Terminator program, I followed closely the original Paradox slug design. The original weighed 730 grs (hard lead) at 1000'/", later to be up to 1200'/". I work with the weight og 745 grs (near 1 3/4 oz) at 1000/1200'/". In modern guns this velocity might be taken a little higher. We are testing these under various conditions. I will not turn loaded rounds loose until I am satisfied that they will perform properly against dangerous game....for that is what they were designed for.
Marshall has various prorams available to feed weight, velocity, and caliber in. Thornily's program works good.
The Terminator has about 2400 lbs of energy at the muzzle.
The problem with the various penetration programs is they do not take into consideration the hardness of the slug/bullet. There is no way a soft lead slug will penetrate as deep as a hard lead slug, even if both have the same weight and velocity.
The question arises ....can these Terminators be used on soft skin game? Of course!
When my license comes in after the first of the year, there will be loaded rounds available. At that time I may put some out on a selected basis for test. There should be some slugs ready to go out soon for those that reload.
As I said before....I will not release these until I know they are right! Best Regards To All, James
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"Home of the Dixie Terminator Slug"

Last edited by James Gates; 12-29-2003 at 07:21 AM.
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  #9  
Old 12-29-2003, 07:51 AM
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Also.......For those that like to play with sight-in charts, etc......The BC of the 745 gr Terminator is .175
Some thought should be applied as to just what this load is designed for.......dangerous game within 100 yards. The Brits like the sight-in so that the slug/bullet never left the line of sight more than 3" +/-
With a scope height of 1.5" and a zero of 75 yards....it will be +1.24" @ 50 yds and -3.17" @ 100 yards
If one sights in at 100 yards........+2.83" @ 50 yds and -4.43" @ 125 yds
Not bad for this weight bullet! And........after all, most game shots are under 75 yards.
Best Regards, James
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"Home of the Dixie Terminator Slug"
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