I posted this in the old forum back in 2000, but it disappeared when Beartooth changed servers. (Beartooth changed because inactive threads were deleted, so it would have disappeared anyhow.)

The bullets were tested in wetpack (soaked newspaper). Wetpack is one of the better test mediums, but it's not meat, so your mileage will vary.

Bullets were the Hornady 200 grain Round Nose, Remington 200 gr. Core-Lokt, Sierra 200 gr. Round Nose and Speer 180 grain Flat Nose. The 200 gr. bullets were tested with 36.0 gr of 3031 for a muzzle velocity of 1975 fps. This is Max in Hornady #4 and Sierra #4, but under IMR's Max. The Speers had a warm load of 3031 for 2185 fps.

All bullets expanded nicely and retained their cores at 25 yards. The Core-Lokt was the only bullet that expanded every time at 200 yards. Some Speers did, but some were hitting high and just cut the top of the wetpack. The Speer does shoot flatter and I should shoot them again. It folds back more than the Core-Lokt so it has a smaller expanded diameter.

The Sierra expanded slightly at 150 yards so it looked like a wadcutter. It expanded nicely at 100 yards. This was an old California lot so new production may do better, but Sierra doesn't recommend using it beyond 150 yards.

The Hornady did not expand at 100 yards. This was a 1996 lot without the nose slits. Mr. Gates tested a 2000 lot with the nose slits and got the same results. Shells I load with them go into a box labelled "NOT FOR DEER".

Bye
Jack

Jack, thanks for reposting. If you get the chance to test again, I would love to see one of the LBT designs included (or any other similar hard cast bullet).

I do have some factory 200gr. Rem loads, they chrono'd just under 2,000fps from a 20" Marlin 336, and have accounted for one small pig to date.

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MikeG

Hi, Mike:
I'd like to, but I've got 2 problems. My Marlin has a short throat and I can't chamber the Beartooth 200 grain FN GC. It's 25°F/-4°C at noon today, and the wetpack won't soak up too well. If I did get it soaked, it wouldn't simulate meat too well.

Bye
Jack

Thanks for the info! Not trying to change the subject at all here, but I would be very interested in anyones expansion results of Cast .35 caliber bullets. I am wondering how an annealed(everything in front of the crimp groove) cast bullet might stand up to expansion tests as compared to these Jacketed numbers....especially how they've performed on game. Didn't mean to intrude on this thread with this question....perhaps should have posted it as a different subject. Thanks.

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CD Cash[br]

Jack,

Yeah, I've run into the same problem as there's only a few LBT designs that have the correct crimp groove for the .35 Rem.

However I did try just a few 180gr. FN, just seated them as long as possible, and didn't bother to crimp. The base of the bullet was down in the powder space but for a few experimental shots, no big deal.

I have some of the correct bullets on order, but not sure when they will show up. That is Marshall's 185gr. "+P" bullet. Ray sent me a few to test feeding, etc.

Sounds like you may have to wait till spring to do anymore wetpack testing.....

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MikeG

Hi, Gents:
The RCBS 35-200-FN has it's fans, although the meplat looks about .200". Saeco has the 356 handgun silhouette bullet, but I can't remember anyone mentioning it. Anyhow, the Core-Lokt isn't that expensive in bulk and gets the job done. I think I'll stick to casting handgun bullets for now.

You could hollow point the bullets with the Forster tool if annealing didn't do the trick. Apparently you can run a fairly soft bullet pretty fast if it's fitted to a good barrel and you use a super lube like Gray 24.

I've got another box of 180 gr. Speers for testing. There's the Winchester and Federal factory loads too. Some folks think the 220 gr. Speer is too tough for deer. Speer dropped it some time in the `70's, then brought it back for the .356 Winchester. Next summer.

There's lot's of .30 calibre expansion tests in the gun rags, and I learned a long time ago that Noslers work. I'd never seen a .35 bullets test, but gun writer Ed Matunas said he'd lost deer because the bullets didn't expand. (Maybe he missed.) So I figured I'd better test them myself and the results were enlightening.

Bye
Jack

Jack,

If you let that wetpack freeze, it will probably simulate the condition of those wild pigs about the middle of January....

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MikeG

Jack - Thanks for reposting those results. Your test has reaffirmed my long standing faith in the Core-Lokt. I haven't done any .35 tests myself, was going to come Spring, but now maybe won't have to. Several others to do though.
DC

Hi, DMC:
It wouldn't do any harm to check my results. I've been known to make mistakes. You could test newer (Missouri) Sierras and slit nose Hornadys at the same time as the Core-Lokts and Speers.

These are the first Hornadys I've used that didn't perform. The SXs in the .222 sent a pile of gophers to that great big alfalfa field in the sky, and they've worked in other calibres for me too. There's very little lead exposed at the nose on the Hornady 200. It's rather curious that an outfit with Hornady's experience would redesign a bullet and still not get it right.

If anybody wants to see a real bullet test, check out Gary Sciuchetti's article in Handloader #193, June 1998. He tested 38 different 180 grain .308 bullets in 100 fps steps from 3100 fps down until they stopped expanding. Some super premiums didn't perform near as well as some of the common bullets.

Mr. Sciuchetti adjusted his loads to get the velocity he wanted and shot at close range. He started with a .300 Weatherby, and switched to a .30-06 and then a .308 Winchester for the lower velocities. He didn't think there was a significant difference in expansion between those fired at close range and those fired at long range for the same impact velocity.

His method is sensible considering the amount of shooting (2350 bullets ) he had to do. It was simpler for me to fire at 50 yard intervals, and I didn't have to make any assumptions about impact velocity. If it doesn't expand at X yards, it doesn't matter how fast it's going.

Bye
Jack

Maybe I will run some .35 tests, but I guess my first tests in Spring will be on some 8MM bullets. Haven't really done much with them and now have several rifles that shoot them. Then another round of Sierra-Speer-Hornady comps in .45 handguns. Then a series of primer tests. Time and money permitting, maybe the .35.
I have used the method of loading down for quite some time for terminal performance tests. I've got a 300 yard range that I'm extending to 400 yards this spring, so that isn't much of a consideration, but the load down method saves a lot of wear and tear on the old legs. I fire each type of bullet into several different mediums (Media? Mediae?) for a full test, and that can add up to a LOT of walking, since my methods require a re-setting up after each shot. Not very efficient.
DC

I'm guessing you guys are shooting these out of lever guns, so this may be of little use, but here goes. I shoot the .35 Remington out of an XP-100 with a 15" barrel. It will safely handle loads beyond the loading manuals as a result of the stronger action. I let an aquaintance confirm this in a Custom Shop Model 7 first. I can attain the velocity levels you are getting from your rifles with no problem. If you're content to have only 2 cartridges in your gun at a time, one in the pipe and one in the magazine, try the Hornady 180gr SSP (single shot pistol bullet) if it will feed in your gun. I've done some limited expansion testing with these and have had very good expansion out to 200 yards. I've also killed a deer with this bullet, but it exited the off side, so I didn't recover it, but the exit wound was substantial. I have settled on H335 for most of my shooting in this round. I have a Saeco #356 200gr GC silhoutte 4 cav that I used to use for the 357 Max for slammin' steel, and it works quite well for this pistol. The only thing I would advise you to be careful of is the standard lead bullet deal of fitting it to the barrel properly, as those gas checks only iron the lead deeper into the rifling if the bore isn't sealed properly, and deeper yet on the next shot. Long live the Foul Out and a quick learning curve on this matter. The nose of the above bullet is a fairly long in length that it has a near bore diameter, so I'd get some test bullets before I bought one because the 35 Rem has a pretty short throat and if it's a tight fit..the relativley weak camming action common to lever guns may give you fits when chambering rounds. It shoots very well, and if any of you need a few "test bullets" I'd be willing to provide them for you to try. They are only cast out of water quenched wheel weight, not linotype, but the ww's where melted in 100 lb batches, so they are pretty uniform.