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  #41  
Old 07-21-2008, 07:21 AM
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I agree that the .410 brass is very thin and not intended for high pressure loads but then .444 brass is very undersize at the base and that is not good either. If you were working with a true .410 chamber it would be a better fit but your chambers are .45 Colt size and that's about .012" oversize for either .444 or .410.
The .410 brass will hold about 70 grains of 3f Goex with room to seat a bullet. That is not at all excessive for a .45 muzzleloader and I would guesstimate your velocity somewhere around 1400 fps. That is with real black powder, with triple seven, who knows?
For smokeless loads, I think you'd be OK with low end .444 cast bullet loads and such loads, say 1700-1800fps, will be about as fast as your cast bullets can stand. In fact, with the heeled bullet, I doubt you'd get accuracy driving them even that fast.
With smokeless loads I would certainly NOT add any filler but would use cast bullet data exactly as listed. The use of a filler is required for black powder reduced loads, if you wish to run a black powder load which does not fill the case. With smokeless powders the addition of cream o wheat filler may drastically alter the pressure curve in an unpredictable manner.
I applaud your efforts and do keep us informed as to your progress.
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  #42  
Old 07-21-2008, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoyoteJoe View Post
I agree that the .410 brass is very thin and not intended for high pressure loads but then .444 brass is very undersize at the base and that is not good either. If you were working with a true .410 chamber it would be a better fit but your chambers are .45 Colt size and that's about .012" oversize for either .444 or .410.
The .410 brass will hold about 70 grains of 3f Goex with room to seat a bullet. That is not at all excessive for a .45 muzzleloader and I would guesstimate your velocity somewhere around 1400 fps. That is with real black powder, with triple seven, who knows?
For smokeless loads, I think you'd be OK with low end .444 cast bullet loads and such loads, say 1700-1800fps, will be about as fast as your cast bullets can stand. In fact, with the heeled bullet, I doubt you'd get accuracy driving them even that fast.
With smokeless loads I would certainly NOT add any filler but would use cast bullet data exactly as listed. The use of a filler is required for black powder reduced loads, if you wish to run a black powder load which does not fill the case. With smokeless powders the addition of cream o wheat filler may drastically alter the pressure curve in an unpredictable manner.
I applaud your efforts and do keep us informed as to your progress.

Thanks. I think you are right. I think I need to keep this on the weaker end of loads.
I can always load 444 Marlin brass to go hotter.

But, really, why? If I can produce results similar to my muzzleloader, then I'm happy. Every deer I have shot with my muzzleloader went straight down where it was standing. I don't need to knock the deer 10 feet backswards...
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  #43  
Old 07-21-2008, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoyoteJoe View Post
I agree that the .410 brass is very thin and not intended for high pressure loads but then .444 brass is very undersize at the base and that is not good either. If you were working with a true .410 chamber it would be a better fit but your chambers are .45 Colt size and that's about .012" oversize for either .444 or .410.
The .410 brass will hold about 70 grains of 3f Goex with room to seat a bullet. That is not at all excessive for a .45 muzzleloader and I would guesstimate your velocity somewhere around 1400 fps. That is with real black powder, with triple seven, who knows?
For smokeless loads, I think you'd be OK with low end .444 cast bullet loads and such loads, say 1700-1800fps, will be about as fast as your cast bullets can stand. In fact, with the heeled bullet, I doubt you'd get accuracy driving them even that fast.
With smokeless loads I would certainly NOT add any filler but would use cast bullet data exactly as listed. The use of a filler is required for black powder reduced loads, if you wish to run a black powder load which does not fill the case. With smokeless powders the addition of cream o wheat filler may drastically alter the pressure curve in an unpredictable manner.
I applaud your efforts and do keep us informed as to your progress.
If I load with hot 45 Colt load recipes and do not use a filler, I run into the problem of the powder laying scattered flat along the gravity dependent aspect of the brass. I have read that that is very bad.

So, if I load with 444 Marlin or 45 Colt loads, then what do I do about that? Just use a wad perhaps and no filler? A tight fitting wad with no filler would work, I suspect.
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  #44  
Old 07-22-2008, 06:29 AM
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I think I would use the .410 brass for black powder loads only and see how those work out for you. I'd do the smokeless loads in .444 brass. You most definitely DO NOT want to ram a wad down tight on the powder, that will cause a pressure ring between the wad and the bullet base. If you use any sort of filler to hold the powder back against the primer it must be something light and fluffy, like a small tuft of cotton, just a little ball of fluff slightly larger than the case diameter is OK, but if using any sort of solid wad it must be tight against the bullet base with no air space between wad and bullet. But actually any sort of filler is not generally recommended, use the .444 data just as it is listed. For example, I believe your bullets are 210 grain. The Lyman #47 manual lists a load for their 215 grain cast bullet as follows: 12 grains of Unique for 1335 fps to start, working up to a maximum load of 18 grains Unique at 1735 fps. Those loads are listed with no wads or fillers of any sort.
With the heeled bullets you are using, it might be good to have a wad to protect the bullet base, sort of like a gas check. But if you do that it must be tight against the bullet base with no air space between, just start the wad into the case mouth and let the bullet push it down as the bullet is seated. Air space between will have the effect of a bore obstruction, causing a radial pressure ring which can ring the chamber.
You seem to be an intelligent fellow but you must realize that inside a gun's chamber and bore things do not always work the way your common sense and logic may tell you they work, what seems reasonable is not always so. I would like to suggest you go into the "handgun cartridge" or "reloading" section and post there what you are doing. You will get a lot more feedback in those sections because not so many people hang out in the "singleshot pistol" section.
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  #45  
Old 07-22-2008, 05:10 PM
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Thanks. I think it is probably very good advice to use only black powder or black powder substitutes in this load and save any smokeless experimentation for the 444 Marlin brass.

Besides, the goal of the whole experiment was to produce a stronger deer hunting option with the H&R "Survivor" HandiRifle. And, I think that triple seven will do that just fine.

The bullet actually is 248 grain.
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  #46  
Old 07-23-2008, 07:00 AM
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Good luck and let us know how she shoots when you get it to the range.
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  #47  
Old 07-23-2008, 09:48 PM
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posted the idea in the reloading area as you advised.

http://shootersforum.com/showthread....348#post358348
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  #48  
Old 08-20-2009, 09:49 AM
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Any suggestions on where to look for a belt and holster for this pistol?
Thx, Paul
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  #49  
Old 08-20-2009, 01:52 PM
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I made my own Slim-Jim crossdraw style because that is what I do, but I suspect any holster made for a 7 1/2" barreled single action revolver could be remolded to fit. It's easy enough to do, just soak the holster in water, wrap the gun up in a heavy plastic bag, stuff it into the holster, press the leather tightly around the gun with finger tips and set it aside to dry for a day or two. The leather will then be a perfect fit to the gun and the plastic bag will provide enough clearance so the gun will slip in and out OK.

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  #50  
Old 12-14-2010, 08:27 AM
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Super Comanche Pistol

I saw a picture of a Comanche on here with wooden grips and forearm. Any help on how and where to purchase some wooden grips would be greatly appreciated. Would be willing to pay to have some made.
Thurston Ford
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  #51  
Old 12-15-2010, 06:41 AM
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Wish I could help you with that but I made my own from a stick of walnut given me by a local cabinet maker. I do know that Ruger Blackhawk grips can be modified to fit and about anything looks better than the black rubber things they come with.
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  #52  
Old 12-15-2010, 09:47 AM
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Comanche parts

CoyoteJoe, could you tell me where you got your wooden grips and forearm that are on your Comanche. Any help greatly appreciated.
Thurston Ford
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  #53  
Old 12-16-2010, 06:54 AM
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Read my post between your last two posts.
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  #54  
Old 08-21-2011, 02:02 AM
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Hi guys, I realize this is an older post, but ran across it while searching for another.
I have had very good luck shooting 45 colt in my Rexio. With a 265 LSWC I could get 1 3/4"ish groups at 50 yds from the bench. I took a chamber cast and found that the chamber is long enough to fit a 454 case, there is a step at the end of that area, then it slopes down to meet the rifling at the end of the 410 shell section. I can't find my notes, so I'm just posting what I remember. I am not suggesting that anyone shoot 454 in it, just saying that the chamber is long enough to fit.
I had a problem with the forend comeing off from recoil, the rubber is too soft. The chamber is very rough and gave problems with extraction.
I emailed the company to inform them of the 454 chamber length and suggested useing a harder rubber and making the chamber smoother. I also suggested making them in 357 mag and think they'd sell a pile of them.
I bought another new one about a year ago to see if they had made any improvements on them and found that they were useing harder rubber and the forend doesn't fly off anymore. The chamber is smoother, but they kept the 454 length chamber.
They did make a scope mount for them and I found a couple on Ebay. I wish they would make a weaver style base to give us more options on mounting optics on them.
I think they are a great low cost option for someone wanting to get a single shot for big game hunting.

I found a leather holster for a 10" TC and it fits great.

For those wanting to try longer cases and hollow base 410 slugs or similar, there is always Quickload to get an idea for powders and starting loads. I have found Quickload to be fairly accurate in predicting velocity. I don't have anyway to verify pressure, but if the velocity is close to what is predicted, then I would guess the pressure should be close also.



They also made them in 22lr and 22mag. Here's a pic of the scope mount.

FWIW

Last edited by Lar45; 08-21-2011 at 09:14 AM.
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  #55  
Old 10-28-2011, 03:02 PM
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Do not forget buckshot, in my limited use they seem to pattern adequately

Did I miss other report on it, I did do a quick read of above
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  #56  
Old 09-20-2012, 10:33 AM
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Wnbwinn, I am new to this Heel bullet thing and wonder what ever happend as a result of your experements? I have some Norma 93X74R cases but before getting some bullets and trying them out in my T/C 45/410 I thought I should check for an update. Would like tho know about group size at say 25 yards

John
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