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  #1  
Old 02-03-2005, 03:53 PM
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NEF .223 Handi rifle, trouble ejecting shells...


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The rifle is spotless. I open the rifle and slide the round in the chamber till it is flush. I close the rifle. I shoot, I open the rifle, and 1 out of 5 times it won't eject. I'm using brass .223 winchester ammo. The rifle is not old or worn out, it has only had 200 rounds through it. I don't want to send it out for 6 weeks to NEF to get it fixed until I get another rifle to occupy me. They only fail to eject after I shoot. The brass must expand. It's happened when it's cold and when it's warmed up.

My theory is, the chamber is too tight, or the spring is too weak, or the spring is not getting activated.

Any opinions?

I took the rifle apart. It appears that it's getting activated, so that is ruled out. I don't think the spring is too weak. It's really hard to push it in. So I assume the chamber is too tight or there is a bur or something stopping the empty shells.

Grrr... this is frustrating.

Last edited by skcusloa; 02-03-2005 at 06:04 PM.
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  #2  
Old 02-03-2005, 06:34 PM
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Couple of ideas: First, are these handloads? The NEF is a neat little rifle, but doesn't like hot loads, in fact usually gives best accuracy with middle of the road type stuff. I knew one fellow that had your problem with some imported ammo, I think Phillipino or Israeli. Also, a lot of these ejection problems have been cured by polishing the chamber, often with no more than Flitz polish. Good luck!
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  #3  
Old 02-03-2005, 06:59 PM
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They're store bought winchester. They're loaded to military specs. I don't know of any .223 you can get that isn't loaded to the max, besides hand loads.

I was thinking of getting some valve lapping compound and rubbing it in there and stick an empty case in there and twist it around... That's my next step.
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  #4  
Old 02-03-2005, 07:05 PM
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Factory new cases being ejected from a chamber (even if ejected by beating them out with a cleaning rod) will leave marks on the case that can diagnose your problem. Will have to be some hard (bright on the brass) rub marks that keep occuring in the same location of each stuck case.

May be a single point rub mark that is evidence of a burr or rough chamber or it could be a bright ring around the head area...or neck...or whatever.

IDentify what's hanging that ejection before you start lapping the whole chamber.

Ejection has nothing to power it but the spring loaded extractor...no camming action or outside force appled to the process, it's purely spring pressure. Doesn't take a very big "burr" or tight area to foul that up.

Even the extractor, if it "bites" the case too hard (too great a pressure cross wise to the bore line).

Last edited by ribbonstone; 02-03-2005 at 07:07 PM.
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  #5  
Old 02-03-2005, 09:01 PM
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Ok, I'm glad I wasn't going in the wrong direction with the lapping compound. I think the problem is with the neck of the case. With the naked eye, it looks like the used brass is wider there than the unused brass. It seems really odd that a rifle with such praise would be doing this. I'm very happy with the accuracy of this rifle. I'd hate to have to send it off. I am dissapointed that I'm going to do anything with this rifle to get it to function right.

I have no experience with headspacing. I was afraid that using lapping compound would effect it.

That spring is so hard to push in when the rifle is apart I'm surprised it can't push the brass out. The brass seems easy to pry out with a pocket screw dirver.....
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  #6  
Old 02-04-2005, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skcusloa
Ok, I'm glad I wasn't going in the wrong direction with the lapping compound. I think the problem is with the neck of the case. With the naked eye, it looks like the used brass is wider there than the unused brass. It seems really odd that a rifle with such praise would be doing this. I'm very happy with the accuracy of this rifle. I'd hate to have to send it off. I am dissapointed that I'm going to do anything with this rifle to get it to function right.

I have no experience with headspacing. I was afraid that using lapping compound would effect it.

That spring is so hard to push in when the rifle is apart I'm surprised it can't push the brass out. The brass seems easy to pry out with a pocket screw dirver.....
All cases get wider at the neck afte thry are fired...it's the only way tht brass can release the bullet. Normal is for a fired case to accept a bullet as a ginger slide fit after firing.

It's not the SIZE so much as where there is interfearnace...a hrad mark on the case from soemthing holding it back from extracting.

Those actons will stick cases when (1) the case over expands and fails to adaquately contract after friing...this can be from over pressure, too soft brass, or cases that just start off life on the large side of sepcs. (2) there is a burr or some roughness in the chamber (3) the extractor's spring tension into the rim is great enough to press the case to the side so strongly it over comes the backwards (extracting) strength.

Lapping the whole chamber will increase headsapce a bit...better to take great care to try NOT to lap the shoulder area. SOme of it will migrate it ways intot eh shoulder, but by withdrawing the lapping case, clenaing the case and the shoulder area, can keep this to a minimum.

Go too far ans you'll lap the cvhamber out of spec., which isn't going to do you a bit of good and will ruin the rifle.
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  #7  
Old 02-05-2005, 03:29 PM
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I have a .308 that does this on occation. A thourough cleaning of the chamber is what is needed and do not leave any cleaner residue in the chamber. Do not oil. The rotating case with flitz is about as rough as I would go with polishing. Possibly just fine steel wool ploishing could do the trick. It just does not take much to keep a case from ejecting in these rifles.

I think looking for a repeating mark on the case when they stick is a very good idea.
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  #8  
Old 02-05-2005, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skcusloa
They're store bought winchester. They're loaded to military specs. I don't know of any .223 you can get that isn't loaded to the max, besides hand loads.

I was thinking of getting some valve lapping compound and rubbing it in there and stick an empty case in there and twist it around... That's my next step.
#1 NEF manual says NOT to use mil spec ammo. (Its loaded WAY too hot and causes over pressure and poor accuracy) Use the winchester SuperX and the winchester supreme ammo and you will have much better results and like the NEF rifle more. BambiSlayer
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  #9  
Old 02-05-2005, 06:19 PM
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I didn't get the manual, because I traded for the gun. I get great accuracy with the winchester ammo, when I do my part the rounds ARE always touching. I'm not paying $15 for 20 rounds of .223. I'm sticking to the winchester ammo. I'm sorry if I sound like I'm just ignoring everything you say, but I'd rather pry every round out with a screw driver than pay big cartridge prices for .223. I bought some winchester varmint ammo and the cases look a lot newer than the winchester Israeli ammo and I haven't had any ejection problems, but I only fired 3 rounds because I only want to use them on varmints. They were priced ok. $11 for 40. They shoot at 3600FPS. I haven't grouped them yet so I don't know about the accuracy.

Strange thing, I fired one at a tree and it didn't even penetrate it. All it did was blow the bark off.

Again, I've opened at least 4 different types of .223 and ALL of them were loaded to the brim.

1. Wincheste Value Pack Isreali Made
2. Monarch steel case russian made
3. Friends hand loads, no eject problems with these.
4. Silver bear.

I've lost a lot of respect for the handi after learning it was only meant to shoot these mystical non hot loaded .223's.

$15 a box for .223, I'd puke if I ever paid that much. You can get full deer rounds for that much, like 30.06 etc.
All of the ones I look at on the net say they're high velocity, so they've gotta be loaded hot.
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  #10  
Old 02-05-2005, 07:04 PM
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You can't tell the pressure level from the label on the case, or bullet weight, or amount of recoil, or even the muzzle velocity.

FYI, the military 5.56 ammo is, in fact, loaded for slightly different chamber dimensions. It's mostly interchangeable, but not dimensionally identical.

The reason the .223 bullet just blew the bark off of the tree without penetrating is that's what most .223 ammo is supposed to do, expand violently on small varmits. Working as designed!

The fact that your friend's hand loads (and the commercial Winchester ammo) eject fine is a significant clue. The problem is almost certainly related to the condition of the chamber.

So.... FIRST, get a couple of chamber brushes (bigger than .22 cal, say about .40 cal) and some 0000 steel wool. Chuck a cleaning rod in a drill, put a .40 cal brush on the end, carefully wind some steel wool around the brush. Spray it down with some WD-40, and clean the heck out of the chamber! Use 2 or 3, and run each brush through the chamber till it wears down enough it's not doing anything.

Don't try to force it into the rifling, and don't let the loop on the front of the brush hit the front of the chamber.

CLEAN, and I mean CLEAN, the oil / crud / bits of steel wool out of the chamber, get it completely dry and free of oil. A can of brake cleaner works great, use it outside.

Now, if you still have ejection problems, that means the inside of the chamber is still rough, somewhere. Might consider covering a case with ink from a dry-erase or laundry marker, let it dry, and then fire and see if you can spot drag marks or indications of some other problems.
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Last edited by MikeG; 02-05-2005 at 07:08 PM.
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  #11  
Old 02-05-2005, 07:23 PM
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IF loads work fine, then it seems that your best bet is to not use the load that gives you trouble. (finish the old joke: Doc, it hurts when I do this....).

If you just have to shoot the cheapest ammo you can find then perhaps you do need to trade taht Handi Rifle in or somthing less particular about its diet.
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  #12  
Old 02-06-2005, 05:37 PM
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I also had problems with my .223 Ultra Varmint rifle. I sent it back to have the factory look at it and they found nothing wrong. It was ok, cause I got a 45/70 barrel and a trigger job while it was there.

What I found, and believe my problem was, was a specific brand of ammo I was using. I bought several types of mil-spec ammo because it was cheap. Mostly Wolf and S&B that I ordered out of Cheaper than dirt. Both brands that I had used a waterproofing compound on their casings. After firing a few, the casings would start to stick. I believe that the "compound" was melting off the cases slightly and causing the ejection problems. The funny thing was, the casings that I had the most problems with sticking was factory american made ammo!! I guess the "compound" would melt on the imported casings and they worked fine, but it melted onto the un-compounded casings and stuck. Once I gave the chamber a good cleaning I had no further problems.

Now the only surplus non-american ammo I buy for this gun is the Silver Bear brand ammo. These casings are nickel cased and do not have the waterproofing compound on them. I also use mostly reloaded casings now and I have had no problems since I made this change.

Good luck.
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  #13  
Old 02-07-2005, 07:54 PM
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I've gotten really good with my pocket screw driver. I don't really care any more. I've done everything I can with this rifle, besides buy the really exepensive ammo.

I bought some silver bear for it, but I didn't inspect it good enough at the gun show and when I got it home I found that the cases were slightly corroded.

Why would a good company make a cheap rifle that doesn't like cheap ammo? It doesn't make sense. It's obviously made for the budget shooter in mind.

I'm going to keep it. I had a lot of fun with it today, I was nailing clay pigeons at 250 yards with just a bipod and no sand bags. My friend, who's never shot at any sort of target nailed one on his second try. I was using the horribly innacurate military loaded Israeli made winchester ammo that some of you have been whining about.

I think I'll clean the corrosion off of this silver bear and try it. It's very mildly corroded, but I didn't want it to clog the chamber up.
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  #14  
Old 02-08-2005, 05:41 AM
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  #15  
Old 02-08-2005, 08:18 AM
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As with all things you get what you pay for..........if the cost of decent ammo is too high then learn to load up your own. Cheaper even than the crap ammo you can get from "Cheaper than Dirt" ...which by the way shoots like dirt.
You can load up better ammo, cheaper and you win all the way around.
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  #16  
Old 02-09-2005, 05:49 AM
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http://www.thegunzone.com/5.56v223.html
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  #17  
Old 02-09-2005, 08:52 AM
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I've asked around and you CAN NOT load it cheaper than any of the russian made ammo. You can load it cheaper than the winchester ammo I buy, but it takes forever unless you spend a good amount on equipment. I'm talking about the litttle handy loaders that cost around 20 bucks.

I found the silver bear shoots ok. It can hit clay pidgeons at 250 yards. It is DIRTY though.

Last edited by skcusloa; 02-09-2005 at 09:14 AM.
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  #18  
Old 02-09-2005, 12:13 PM
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skcusloa

I'm not quite sure why you ask the question. Lots of folks gave you the wisdom of years of experience and your reply was:

"I've gotten really good with my pocket screw driver. I don't really care any more. I've done everything I can with this rifle, besides buy the really exepensive ammo."

If you want to be able to shoot and control the quality of your ammo you need to get into reloading.

You can buy a complete Lee reloading outfit with a set of dies for well under a hundred dollars from Cabales, Midway or Midsouth. Bullets, primers and powder should be avialable locally.

All in all it won't save you any money, but besides being able to taylor your loads for accuracy and function in your rifle you will be able to shoot a lot more rounds for the same money.

You will find that is the reason most of us "old hands" reload. You will also find a wealth of information on doing so in this forum if you decide to listen.
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  #19  
Old 02-09-2005, 01:52 PM
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Lets see...proable cause of the sticking is that you have a nice tight chamber with minimal lead ("free travel" if you like)....so it refuses to eject rounds that develop a bit more than average pressure/are made for NATO spec. chambers....and you are unhappy about having a chamber that probably can produce good accurcy with good ammo.

We should all have your problems.
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  #20  
Old 02-09-2005, 03:24 PM
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The problem comes in when in the field and needing a follow up shot. Not a situation to be in.
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