45-70 or 458 Ruger #1 light loads? - Page 2

Bones · #21 02-24-2009, 05:11 PM

if you want big holes what about a 500 Lineburgh?

B

DOGMAN · #22 08-20-2012, 06:10 PM

Is there anyway to shoot a 45/70 round in a 458 ruger #1?
Is there any way- cost is no object- to somehow take the barrel back and shorten the chamber?

Greenhorn Dave · #23 08-21-2012, 04:42 AM

No. Rimmed 45-70 vs rimless 458. Just a guess -- You are probably put off by the price of 458 Win Mag ammo, which is a good reason to start reloading. I am told 458 Rugers can be bought for less than 45-70s for that very reason.

DOGMAN · #24 08-24-2012, 09:36 AM

Well I just purchased my 1st 458! A ruger #1 with a chopped barrel and a super thick recoil pad....

Now Ive contacted two major gunsmiths about taking the barrel off , chopping the barrel from the breach - then rechambering to 45/70....

I love the heavy H barrel....

Greenhorn Dave · #25 09-04-2012, 02:31 AM

You say it is chopped? Somebody already shortened the barrel??
Maybe . . . . Before you go to all that effort, go to the Hodgdon powder website Hodgdon - The Gun Powder People and the reloading data section and check out reloading the 458 Win Mag with Trail Boss powder. Then compare that to the 45-70 with trail boss powder. For some reason, the 458 can be more gentle than the 45-70, and a rip snorter if you need to shoot elephants in your back yard.
Setting up a single stage press and components just to load 458 would be less than a good gunsmith's fees and the original Ruger #1 would more value if you want to sell it someday.

DOGMAN · #26 10-14-2012, 03:40 AM

Great info. Going to try both the 45/70 and .458wm loads soon...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenhorn Dave

Has anyone tried this or is willing to try these loads?

I have gotten the bug to get a Ruger No1 that makes a big hole in things, but I am no fan of recoil or retina detachment. I am beginning to get brittle -- nowhere near as elastic as I was in my 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, etc.

I thought "45-70" lightly loaded might be good.
Then, for some reason I thought 458 Win Mag. might be OK too.
I have been shooting Hodgdon's cowboy shoot powder, Trail Boss, for about a year in my 44 mag with 250 grain lead bullets and enjoying it very much. Big noise, mild recoil, big hole, and pretty accurate and consistent. And it is impossible to load a double shot of powder.
So I thought, "I wonder if?"
On the Hodgdon data charts online they have loads for both the 45-70 and 458 using Trail Boss under a 405 grain lead bullet -- probably a good choice bullet.
Now, here is the revelation: according to Hodgdon, here is what Trail Boss and a 405 gr lead will do:

Trapdoor load for 45-70 Starting load of 12 gr TB yields 971 fps and 24,500 CUP
Max load of 13 gr TB yields 1007 fps and 25,600 CUP

Here's the Hodgdon 458 Win Mag Trail Boss load with a 405 grain lead bullet:
Starting load of 18 gr TB yields 1040 fps and only 14,500 CUP!!
Max load of 21 gr TB yields 1082 fps and only 17,000 CUP!!!

I have no idea why the 458 with more powder and speed would have a lot less CUP than the 45-70, but it sounds like the 458 Win Mag with the above loads would be a shoulder friendly fun shooter.
Any comments????
Thanks

artpence · #27 10-23-2012, 05:59 AM

I've been shooting a sporterized Trapdoor with 300m grain Hornady's and 405 grain lead bullets with Trail boss and 4198.

I get cloverleaf 3 shot groups at 25 yards with a tang rear/ bead front using the 300 grain bullets over 14 grains of Trail boss. 1 1/4 " at 50 yards with 33 grains of (30 year old) IMR4198.

Haven't found a cast bullet that does not keyhole or spread groups to 8" at 25 yards.

Greenhorn Dave · #28 10-24-2012, 05:21 AM

Try a few lighter lead bullets, anywhere from 250 to 300 grains. They will probably stabilize better.

baddad457 · #29 12-14-2012, 05:36 PM

Here's an idea for you 458 owners: take the 300 Win mag brass you pick up off the range and trim the 30 cal necks back to the forward edge of the shoulder, then expand the shoulder out to .458 you will then have a 2.35" 458 case to load reduced loads in. In response to the orignal author of this thread, the reason for the lower pressure in the 458 case is due directly to the longer case and more case capacity over a 45/70 case.

Pete D. · #30 12-15-2012, 02:49 AM

Just saw this thread. My first reaction was "buy the .458 and load it down". That is also my second reaction. You can duplicate any .45-70 load by appropriate reloading of the .458 Win. The reverse is not true. Brass is more expensive; once you have it, though, you have a lot of flexibility.

Quote:

on the .458 and intended to cut a rim cut for the .45/70 which would allow shooting .45/70, .45/90 and .458 from the gun.

I am guessing that you researched this......can this really be done? Better.....how would it be done? I ask because, aside from the rim diameter of the .45-70, all other dimensions of that venerable old case are smaller than the .458 Win.
How would this be cut so as to get around the belted chamber of the .458 and avoid case head expansion problems?
The .45-70 is 0.5039" at the case head; the .458 Win is 0.532" across the belt.
Pete

baddad457 · #31 12-15-2012, 05:04 AM

It could be fire formed by loading the 45/70 light for the first rounds. But it could also rupture at the belt area too. It would be easier to use 300 win mag brass as I posted before. I pick that stuff up all the time at the local range.

Pete D. · #32 12-15-2012, 11:16 PM

Quote:

It could be fire formed by loading the 45/70 light for the first rounds. But it could also rupture at the belt area too. It would be easier to use 300 win mag brass as I posted before. I pick that stuff up all the time at the local range.

Understood regarding the 300 magnum cases. Yes, that can be done but then we are not shooting a 45-70. The question I had was about the post mentioning cutting the chamber for a rim which would allow use of the 45-70, 45-90, .458 Win in the same gun.
I just don't see how this could be done......maybe I have something to learn. Of course, that post #14 was made in 2008.
Pete