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  #1  
Old 04-24-2010, 08:27 PM
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.444 marlin for TC g2 contender


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Hello all,
I got two questions:
1) I was thinking of buying a g2 contender, but wanted to know who makes a .444 marlin barrel for it?

2) If you buy the pistol version (and go through the 10 day waiting period here in corny-fornia ) is there a stock that I can get for it to turn it into a rifle. I know you when you make it into a rifle the barrel has to be 16 inches or longer.
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  #2  
Old 04-25-2010, 12:02 AM
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If you want a 444 Marlin you need to buy an Encore
Bones
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  #3  
Old 04-25-2010, 02:53 AM
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Call JD Jones at SSK Industries. He is the one for TC custom barrels.
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  #4  
Old 04-25-2010, 03:32 AM
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...or, you can contact Match Grade Machine, if you want your barrel faster and for less money.

To answer your second question: Yes, you can purchase a buttstock and attach it to your frame, so long as you've already installed a 16" or longer barrel. Starting with a "pistol" frame is the smart way to go about it.
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  #5  
Old 04-25-2010, 04:35 PM
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[If you buy the pistol version (and go through the 10 day waiting period here in corny-fornia ) is there a stock that I can get for it to turn it into a rifle.]

1) IIRC, T/C's Custom Shop - Fox River Outfitters - can supply the barrel.

I've had a .45-70 & a .375 Win in a non-G2 Contender, so why not a .444 ?

2) The Feds have changed the rules.

It used to be a longer barrel & stock could be hung on a Contender or Encore frame, making it a rifle, but now the Feds make T/C record each frame's SN AND whether it was shipped as a rifle, a pistol, or a bare frame.

If it was ever recorded as a pistol, the Feds now say it's illegal to switch back/forth.

It doesn't make sense to me - but then, not much the Feds say does anyway.

Bottom line - YOU need to check with BATF, and not at an internet forum, prior to spending $$$$.

.
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  #6  
Old 04-25-2010, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangr44 View Post
2) The Feds have changed the rules.

It used to be a longer barrel & stock could be hung on a Contender or Encore frame, making it a rifle, but now the Feds make T/C record each frame's SN AND whether it was shipped as a rifle, a pistol, or a bare frame.

If it was ever recorded as a pistol, the Feds now say it's illegal to switch back/forth.

It doesn't make sense to me - but then, not much the Feds say does anyway.

Bottom line - YOU need to check with BATF, and not at an internet forum, prior to spending $$$$.

.
I know the BATF records whether or not a Contender or Encore frame leaves the factory as a rifle or pistol frame (regardless if a barrel is even attached) but I have seen absolutely nothing stating that it is illegal to switch back/forth. Further, it has always been the BATF stance that converting from a rifle to a pistol is breaking the letter of the law, not the other way around.

If you can substantiate this claim in any way, I would be interested to see it. With the exception of one SCOTUS ruling, I am not aware of a single court case where the legality of the T/C Contender, G2 or Encore has been brought into question. It is my understanding, and practice, that as long as you do not have a buttstock attached to the action, while a barrel shorter than 16" is also attached, you have not violated any laws. Until information to the contrary has been clarified and propagated, I see no reason to create confusion, or for T/C owners to change the way they use these guns.
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  #7  
Old 04-25-2010, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangr44 View Post
1) IIRC, T/C's Custom Shop - Fox River Outfitters - can supply the barrel.

I've had a .45-70 & a .375 Win in a non-G2 Contender, so why not a .444 ?
Factory maximum pressure for a 45-70 govt. is 28000 cup
Factory Maximum pressure for a 444 Marlin is 44000 cup
Source - Speer reloading manual # 13

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  #8  
Old 04-25-2010, 11:06 PM
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Thanks all for the replies.
Max pressure for the G2 is 48,000. So the the 444 with less than max loads should be good. Yes, broom_jm. I have only seen were a longer than 16' barrel is needed to make it legal and switching back and forth is legal. Although I did read in one place that switching a pistol to a rifle is ok (with said longer barrel) but switching it back is technically considered making a rifle into a pistol. Which is suppose to be illegal(?). Will read up on it before putting down the $$$.
The only reason I would like to buy a Contender is because it is lighter and can be broken down for backpacking. T/C's website says that the G2 is 5.4lbs with a 23 inch barrel in Rifle mode. For those that have them, can you get them lighter. I can take a lot of recoil. Thanks all, great forum!!
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  #9  
Old 04-26-2010, 03:24 AM
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444 vs Contender

I had a 444 Marlin supplied to me by JD Jones of SSK,for my older T/C Contender, waaaaaay back in the late 80's. Why would anyone think that a 444Marlin bbl would not be compatible with the even stronger G2 ??

BTW it was very shootable with the Hornady 265's. I loaded it on the warm side and it was responsible for quite a few moose,black bear,and deer.

As stated above,if doing it nowadays I would start with a Encore Pro Hunter frame.

AND........I say,put any bbl on any frame as long as you attach the appropriate length stock and/or consider the OAL of the built weapon. Basically,pistol grip on any bbl under 16 inches. Lets not overcomplicate this fairly straight forward "fix". -----pruhdlr
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  #10  
Old 04-26-2010, 04:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cali-newbie View Post
Thanks all for the replies.
Max pressure for the G2 is 48,000. So the the 444 with less than max loads should be good. Yes, broom_jm. I have only seen were a longer than 16' barrel is needed to make it legal and switching back and forth is legal. Although I did read in one place that switching a pistol to a rifle is ok (with said longer barrel) but switching it back is technically considered making a rifle into a pistol. Which is suppose to be illegal(?). Will read up on it before putting down the $$$.
The only reason I would like to buy a Contender is because it is lighter and can be broken down for backpacking. T/C's website says that the G2 is 5.4lbs with a 23 inch barrel in Rifle mode. For those that have them, can you get them lighter. I can take a lot of recoil. Thanks all, great forum!!
The original Contender, G2 or Encore all break down nicely for packing into a wilderness area, but I'm wondering why you'd go with the 444 Marlin for such an excursion? Save your wrist and go with a 260 Remington (Encore) or 7-30 Waters (Contender/G2). You'll get much flatter trajectory if one of those muley bucks steps out of the trees at 200 yards. Actually, if you're breaking the gun down, why not get an Encore and longer rifle barrel? You could go with an '06, even. Lots of good choices that are better for long-range deer hunting than the powerhouse 444.
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  #11  
Old 04-26-2010, 05:57 PM
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[With the exception of one SCOTUS ruling, I am not aware of a single court case where the legality of the T/C Contender, G2 or Encore has been brought into question]

This is what the Supremes actually ruled: (there is a reason they are called the Supremes)

"We conclude that the Contender pistol and carbine kit when packaged together by Thompson/Center have not been 'made' into a short barreled rifle for purposes of the NFA."

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/91-0164.ZO.html

The SCOTUS ruling IS the ruling to be aware of - since those rulings become the Law of the Land, they overrule any others.

The SCOTUS ruling, please notice, applies to T/C - and doesn't specify private parties doing the same.

Since this subject has been just about beat to death, here & elsewhere. if you want to know the law, contact the BATF and they'll be more than happy to tell you.

Since each frame leaves T/C designated a rifle or pistol, a call to T/C can tell you which yours is.
{BTW, T/C says EVERY Contender frame is a "pistol" frame)

According to the BATF (you know, the guys who actually enforce this silly things) putting a pistol barrel on a frame designated by serial number as a rifle frame is in violation of the law - but, as I was told by a local agent, "Do you think we have time to go around and check serial numbers on single shot pistols? Riiiight."

.
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  #12  
Old 04-27-2010, 04:04 AM
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Yeah, if the BATF was showing any inclination to interpret or enforce rulings concerning T/C single-shot pistols/rifles in a way that gave me pause, I would certainly err on the side of caution and have a dedicated frame for each barrel. As things stand, I don't see that being a concern. Single shot, break-action weapons are the least of their concerns.

I'd like to hear from the OP on why he wants such a thumper of a cartridge for California blacktail or mule deer?
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  #13  
Old 05-02-2010, 12:10 AM
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Actually, the reason I wanted the marlin 444 for hunting is more for reloading than anything. I am trying to cut down on all the different calibers to buy for. I was thinking it would save me money to buy 44 cal bullets for my 44 mag and 444 marlin. I generally hunt in forrest so thick that a 100yd shot is very rare. Plus the 444. marlin is also a good bear cartridge for the big ones that are near the oregon border. Anyways, my biggest reason to buy a contender versus an encore. The encore is about 7 lbs. My 45-70 and marlin 336 is about 7lbs so I don't see a real big advantage other than the encore can be broken down. I would like to get the contender down to 5lbs or less. Has anyone done that? thanks again for all the info.
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Old 05-02-2010, 03:56 AM
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Howz 'Bout Dis

Buy a Contender,G2,or Encore frame.(Encore Pro Hunter would be my choice)Pick up the shortest RIFLE barrel(16+ inches)you can find. Have the bbl chopped to 16.25 inches and the bbl re-chambered to 444Marlin. Buy yourself a Ryanite stock for it.

That combo would be 5lbs or under. Or you could get a bbl under 16 inches and have a gunsmith permanately attach a muzzle brake. There are several ways to go to come up with a short,light,444,that comes in at 5lbs~.

My wife's Contender with it's 21" SS .30-30AI bbl and it's Ryanite stock weighs <7lbs, and that is with base,rings,and a 3.5-10X50 Leupold.----pruhdlr
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  #15  
Old 05-02-2010, 04:54 AM
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I shudder to think what the recoil and muzzle blast would be like, but I have a pretty good point of reference: Attached is a picture of my 44 Mag Contender with Rynite stock and 16.25" barrel. Recoil is not heavy, but surprisingly "sharp". It has busted a couple of people in the nose when they didn't give it the proper respect. People just love to shoot this little gun, but don't take me seriously when I tell them to make sure they have it tight to their shoulder!

If your shots on deer will be no further than 100 yards, the 44 Mag will certainly get the job done, as well as be effective enough for any black bear that gets close enough to worry about. I know from experience this little rig can be taken down, carried in a pack, assembled and then used to good effect. I've only done it once, taking a whitetail doe, but it was satisfying.

My guess is the 444 Marlin, from a similar setup would be just as portable and certainly more effective, but also be punishing to both shoulder and ears. Make sure you've got a good recoil pad to go along with hearing protection, particularly since you'll really want a muzzle brake on such a short, hard-kicking little gun.
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.444 marlin for TC g2 contender-tc-contender-44mag-carbine-002-small.jpg  
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Old 05-02-2010, 06:57 AM
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That's That......

.....14" that you had "legalized isn't it ?? That is probably the way that I would go for the sake of the heavier contour bbl.

I would look thru the Brownell's catalog and come up with a brake(min of 2") to supply to my gunsmith at the time of bbl cutting. For the 444 I would find a small(9-10") long eye relief scope, or well made red dot sight to install outta eyebrow range. Actually a longish Pic or Weaver rail on top with a small,open red dot sight out at the end would give you good targeting out to 75-100yds. That might be the way to go.

Really,lots of options. -----pruhdlr
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  #17  
Old 05-02-2010, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by pruhdlr View Post
.....14" that you had "legalized isn't it ?? That is probably the way that I would go for the sake of the heavier contour bbl.

I would look thru the Brownell's catalog and come up with a brake(min of 2") to supply to my gunsmith at the time of bbl cutting. For the 444 I would find a small(9-10") long eye relief scope, or well made red dot sight to install outta eyebrow range. Actually a longish Pic or Weaver rail on top with a small,open red dot sight out at the end would give you good targeting out to 75-100yds. That might be the way to go.

Really,lots of options. -----pruhdlr
Yes, it was a Super 14 barrel that David White (ASSASSIN) added an aluminum extension to, so that it would meet the legal guidelines. It has a 2X-7X Simmons right now, but a 1X-4X would server just as well, or one of the options you mentioned. Long eye relief, in the 4" range, would be much appreciated if it was shooting a 444 Marlin.
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