The web's most comprehensive user-interactive handloading database! Find the loading data created by handloaders, for handloaders, post your pet loads, or access and develop your own online loading database with our LoadNotes personal handloading database software. This feature, unique in its concept and intuitive in it's data presentation is fast to access, superbly organized and comprehensive in scope.Our online forums for questions and answers on many shooting and outdoor related topics. A dynamic, active, and well-informed resource for your enjoyment and interaction. Our most used resource on this website! Come share the experience with us!
» Advanced

Go Back   Shooters Forum > Singe Shot Arms > Single-Shot Rifles
Register FAQ Members List Donate Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-28-2010, 06:28 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3
Lookin for some info on a scheutzen


Registered Users do not see the above ad.


I inherited this rifle. My grandfather owned it as far back as I can remember ( I'm 58 and remember being fascinated by this thing when I was a wee thing). He never shot it nor did he ever figure out what caliber it is. It's a German action with a Harry Pope barrel. I intend to slug it and get a chamber casting and see if the old thing can be made to talk again.

As I can't post attachments, here is a link to some pictures of the rifle. Any input would be greatly appreciated. I'm not interested in selling or trading it. IF I can't get it to run, it'll go back on a wall where it's been for the better part of 50 years.

http://s658.photobucket.com/albums/u...Fathers%20Day/

Thanks in advance,
Willie

Last edited by Wullie; 06-28-2010 at 06:29 PM. Reason: speeling LOL
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-28-2010, 06:31 PM
MikeG's Avatar
The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 26,944
Welcome. That is pretty darn neat. I have seen a few of those but am far from an expert.
__________________
MikeG

Quote:
Originally Posted by faucettb
Welcome to the forum. Rules are simple, be nice and join in.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-28-2010, 07:25 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3
Thanks,
After slogging through about a thousand posts at several single shot forums, I found a link to a German site that someone posted. LO and BEHOLD, I found the maker.
----------------------------------------------------


The Büchsenmacher Ernst Friedrich Büchel - even also outstanding contactors - developed in the year 1909 particularly for the rifle competition shooting (high-speedshoot) with the federal shooting a new system, whatever it called Concurrenz.
Here it depended on how much shot brings contactors within 2 minutes on the disk and how it reaches many rings thereby. It shot thereby at a disk, which had only eight circles, the center began however with „the 1 “. It was actually a competition, with which only enormous amounts were fired by powder and lead!
With the system Concurrenz was the technical advantage all other systems opposite that the catch block went completely downward and the empty case fell immediately to the side, so that equal a new cartridge could be introduced.

The last improved system developed Büchel before the olympic plays 1936 in Berlin, the Büchel championship can with adjustable cheek and very short firing pin way.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Had to use an online translator hence the stilted English.

Here's a link to the page I got it from.
http://www.feuerbixler.de/

Use the navigation bar on the left and click
Feuerstutzen

and then
Systeme & Verschlüsse

The Harry Pope barrel is an intriguing twist.

NOW to figure out what it eats!! That will be an adventure I figure.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-29-2010, 06:30 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 250
You have a really grand old schuetzen rifle. It still has its rear sight intact!

I have a couple of them and used to shoot in competition. Keep cleaning it with 0000 steel wool with oil on it.



Look under the forend for a caliber marking.

Last edited by Savage99; 06-29-2010 at 06:33 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-30-2010, 10:19 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,397






What a fine old rifle ! The action looks like a Systems Aydt, the basis for many such target rifles.
Do you have the false muzzle, with pins that fit the muzzle's hole pattern ?



If it was mine, 0000 steel wool wouldn't get anywhere NEAR it, no matter HOW much oil was on the pad !

IMHO, the Pope barrel is a treasure beyond value ! Harry M. Pope was a cutting-edge barrel maker from the 1880's well into very old age, pioneering many different rifling tecniques like gain twist & "Pope" rifling, in conjunction with choked bores.



.

Last edited by Rangr44; 06-30-2010 at 10:37 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-30-2010, 01:11 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangr44 View Post





What a fine old rifle ! The action looks like a Systems Aydt, the basis for many such target rifles.
Do you have the false muzzle, with pins that fit the muzzle's hole pattern ?



If it was mine, 0000 steel wool wouldn't get anywhere NEAR it, no matter HOW much oil was on the pad !

IMHO, the Pope barrel is a treasure beyond value ! Harry M. Pope was a cutting-edge barrel maker from the 1880's well into very old age, pioneering many different rifling tecniques like gain twist & "Pope" rifling, in conjunction with choked bores.



.
Rangr44,

If you cleaned the rifle how would you do it?

The rifle is not an AYDT. He says above who made the rifle. I have a AYDT.

Here is a picture of an AYDT.

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-30-2010, 03:51 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,397
Thank you for the pic of your Aydt.

FWIW, I've found that many of the small European gunmakers copied some of the more or less standard or popular actions for their own rifle production; so just because "Joe Smith" handmade a rifle with an action that's an exact copy of, say a Martini, it doesn't make his rifle a "Smith Action".

A copy is a copy is a copy - and the rifle in the OP is just that, but I'm only experienced enough to know that Ernst Friedrich Büchel was NOT a major action designer, and was most likely exactly what he was called: Büchsenmacher, or, "riflemaker"; and not experienced enough to definitely put a finger on the action's actual name.

Here are differently actioned rifles by the same maker (Buchel) as the OP's:










I've successfully cleaned up rifles in similar condition to the one in the OP via one of two methods.

I first try the less invasive method of a complete kerosene soak, after a teardown, of course, with a mild coarse rag scrubbing while soaking (sometimes for days), or afterward.

If the finish doesn't respond to the kero clean, I then use Big 45, from Frontier Metal Cleaning:

http://www.frontiermetalcleaner.com/

Big 45 only looks like steel wool - but it isn't........................

.

Last edited by Rangr44; 06-30-2010 at 04:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-11-2010, 10:43 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Wrangell Ak
Posts: 18
If steel wool messed up the barrel it would be a much cheaper rifle the it appears to be. I use steel wool to clean plastic out of some very spendy SxS's and see no ill effect
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-12-2010, 12:33 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: whitetail country
Posts: 45
If This Ever Comes Up For Sale, I'd Be Interested

If This Ever Comes Up For Sale, I'd Be Interested
__________________
You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-14-2010, 04:31 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 4,895
Wullie, You have what appears to be a Lechner action or a copy there of that has been barreled with a Pope barrel that was designed for loading the bullet from the muzzel by using a removeable false muzzel, then the case with powder and primer ws loaded from the breach. The normal Lechner action has a ski sloped top to the breach block, and yours is flat on the top. It could have been done to facilitate a different cartridge than the original action was originaly built for, or it could be a different model than my reference book details.
__________________
Lee L.

America= Land of the Free, Because of the Brave. == May God Bless Them All.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-15-2010, 06:04 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: whitetail country
Posts: 45
The barrel would have originally had a "false muzzle / bullet starter" with it. Here is what they look like from one of my Pope rifles. After starting the bullet down the muzzlle, a matching wooden rod of proper length would be used to push the bullet to a final position just ahead of the case mouth.

If you look at the right side of the barrel on your rifle (about at the cartridge mouth location) you will find a "scratch mark" that is the desired location of the bullet base.

The rod length would be matched to the desired bullet so that the base was at the exact position of the mark.





__________________
You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-15-2010, 06:30 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: whitetail country
Posts: 45
by the way ... your rifle's action is a true "Lechner" with the trigger assembly in the bottom of the breech block. (it is removable through an access cover - left side on your rifle)

That feature is "unique" to the Lechner.

__________________
You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-17-2010, 05:22 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: whitetail country
Posts: 45
Wullie ... see PM

Wullie ... see PM
__________________
You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-08-2010, 10:02 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: upstate NY
Posts: 57
In the late 70's I acquired a Nordhausen/A. Strover Scheutzen very similar to this one. It came in as a trade. It also had a H.M. Pope barrel on it. It was originally chambered for 32-40 as your's is marked. 32-40 was a very popular scheutzen round at the time. It had the bore 'freshened' by Pope sometime later and was remarked "33-40 Pope". Like yours, mine was missing the false muzzle but the sights were intact including a spirit level globe front sight. The view of the muzzle and the bit of the bore and rifling to be seen , leaves no doubt as to the Pope origins. That is Popes distinctive rifling. I sold the rifle to a Professor at RPI (I can't remember his name at the moment) who happened to stop in my shop and saw it on my office wall. He also had a Pope barreled scheutzen on a Strover/Nordhausen action. His belief was , having seen several other of these same combinations, that Pope may have imported or acquired these actions and sold a number of them. I never shot the rifle but it was used by its new owner.
Nice rifle take good care of it. I noticed on looking over the pics again that the barrel may have been set back as the caliber marking is partially obscured and restamped. The throats washed out and may have necessitated a rechamber. I will bet the chamber cast will show it to still be 32-40.
Always wished I had kept that rifle.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
444 multi ball load info needed BenT Handloading Procedures/Practices 4 01-22-2010 02:22 AM
270 Win load info BURCH Handloading Procedures/Practices 23 09-23-2009 05:35 PM
Revelation 208 30-30? Need info please!!! Gunnerz Leverguns and Their Cartridges (General) 3 07-20-2009 05:17 AM
1902 model 94 .30wcf info Mrrabk Winchester 94 Lever Guns 2 12-19-2008 07:03 AM
Looking for info on Mossberg 810 AHT 30-06 HarveyMushman Rifles and Rifle Cartridges 6 04-16-2008 07:48 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:19 PM.

< Contact Us - Shooters Forum - Archive >

 
 

All Content & Design Copyright © 1999-2002 Beartooth Bullets, All Rights Reserved
View Privacy Policy | Contact Webmaster | Legal Information
Website Design & Development By Exbabylon Internet Solutions
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2