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  #1  
Old 02-01-2011, 12:42 PM
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My new 45-70 go to load for deer


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I have been loading the hornady 325 flex tips with 56 grains of #7 for my deer loads with my buffalo classic. I got some barnes 250 hp's and loaded them with 60 grains of accurate 2230,man what a difference..........just thought I'd share the info
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  #2  
Old 02-01-2011, 01:54 PM
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good to know. now, we just need some pics of success!!!
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  #3  
Old 02-02-2011, 09:30 AM
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Is that in an H&R 45 long colt? I have been considering that rifle...
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  #4  
Old 02-03-2011, 08:48 AM
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No,it's the 45-70 with the 32" barrel,I have the 45 long colt as well as the 38-55 target all are great rifles......
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  #5  
Old 02-03-2011, 09:07 AM
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I did not shoot any bucks this year,just doe's. Some of the younger bunch shot a few bucks,with only one going to mount his. I won't shoot one unless he is better than what I already have. I try and take care of the doe population as I eat it all year instead of beef. sorry no pics,but if the Lord willing I'm here next year I will take some pics of bullet performance..........
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  #6  
Old 02-03-2011, 04:27 PM
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If you want to try a killer bullet in the .45-70 (NOT IN LA RIFLES) try the bullet Barnes brought out for the .458 SOCOM. It is the 300 gr. TTSX, boat tail, hard polymer tip, high BC, and will expand down to 1000 fps but holds together like a solid. There have been a lot of deer and larger game such as bison taken with this round and it is outstanding. I have been shooting these in my .458 SOCOM for a couple years now and the only complaint is price, but worth every penny. Like I said, these are not for use in lever actions though The .458 SOCOM is roughly the equivalent to the .45-70 in bullets of 300-350 gr, but with heavier bullets the SOCOM pales to the grand old .45-70.
Since the TTSX came out I have quit shooting the 250 gr. TSXFN bullet in the SOCOM because the TTSX does everything the 250 TSXFN does but does it with a lot better BC. Give a box a try, you won't be sorry.
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  #7  
Old 02-23-2011, 06:19 PM
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Thanks Big Bore I have an appointment with my cardio doctor Friday and have to go right by Bass Pro I am going to definitely try a box............
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  #8  
Old 02-24-2011, 11:46 AM
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Being a fan of heavy bullets I've always used the 400grn softpoints for deer. I load 53grns of 3031 for 1800fps and major recoil. No it's not fun to shoot off the bench. It works fine on deer - of course - but is more a fun proposition. I have the Marlin lever (early 70s).
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  #9  
Old 02-26-2011, 04:48 PM
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Thumbs up Sounds like a decent load....

BigBore-- I wonder if those 300's are available in canada, I'd like to try in the Siamese for some long range lite loads.
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  #10  
Old 03-10-2011, 08:18 PM
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Just curious------Why would someone want to use an expanding bullet in .45-70 Gov't on a White Tail Deer? I believe that bullet placement has everything to do with a successful one-shot kill. That being said, I have used both 405 gr and 510 gr lead bullets with a large meplat for my reloads and every one has been a one-shot kill. I am careful with my backstops as each deer has been a through-and-through high neck shot (just under the jaw line) with no wasted meat.

Purple Dragon------
I have been loading the hornady 325 flex tips with 56 grains of #7 for my deer loads with my buffalo classic. I got some barnes 250 hp's and loaded them with 60 grains of accurate 2230,man what a difference..........just thought I'd share the info
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  #11  
Old 03-11-2011, 04:51 AM
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Stalker,

I don't think the purpose was to use an expanding bullet, but one that is lighter, generates and retains more velocity, and also kicks a lot less. Others might ask why you'd use a 400 or 500 grain bullet for a little ol' deer?

Getting a "one-shot kill" on deer from a 45-70 is like finding food at a restaurant.
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  #12  
Old 03-11-2011, 05:14 AM
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The ballistic coefficient for the 325 gr FTX is .235. The B/C for a Speer 405 gr FN is .272. Which one retains more energy over a longer range ? Even Speer's 350 gr FN has a higher B/C than the FT (.238 vs .235). A 500 gr cast lead BPCS bullet wil retain energy far longer than a 325 FTX, having a B/C of .400. Someone's been sold a false bill of goods here with the FTX.
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  #13  
Old 03-11-2011, 08:41 AM
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OK, but what is the MV for that 405gr bullet? At what point does the higher BC of the larger bullet overcome the MV of the FTX? Also, how much energy or bullet weight do you need to kill a deer with a 45 caliber bullet? Isn't all of that a moot point, if you hit what you're aiming at? If all you're hunting is a whitetail or mulie, and you're OK with the limited range of the 45-70, why go with any more bullet weight or recoil than is absolutely necessary? The FTX is not the perfect bullet in all calibers, but in the 45 caliber, it's better than most, for deer hunting.
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  #14  
Old 03-11-2011, 10:06 AM
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The lighter bullets should cut down on recoil. That will help quite a few shooters whether they realize it or not.

No bullet will turn the .45-70 into a .270 Win, but hey if it helps a little.... why not. This coming from a dedicated cast bullet shooter. But we all don't have to like the same things.
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  #15  
Old 03-11-2011, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broom_jm View Post
OK, but what is the MV for that 405gr bullet? At what point does the higher BC of the larger bullet overcome the MV of the FTX? Also, how much energy or bullet weight do you need to kill a deer with a 45 caliber bullet?
As I recall, you made the point that the FTX generates more muzzle energy and retains more velocity than any other. Now you say that doesn't matter ? A 325 at 2100 fps will generate just as much recoil as a 400 gr at 1600. But the 400 will shed less velocity down range, and will hit harder than the 325 at some point down range. You've all bought into Hornady's advertising about the FTX, but it works no better than any other 45/70 bullet.
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  #16  
Old 03-11-2011, 05:11 PM
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Hmmmm....

Did a little calculating here to perhaps lay to rest some conflicting ideas.

I too thoroughly enjoy a little good spirited and rousing discussion. And I too like my Marlin .45-70's, they're great, versatile little guns that are way under-rated in many venues.

All this being said, much ado about B.C. and trajectories has been made over the whole FTX bullet and its claimed superiority over conventional bullets designed for lever action rifles, and the enhanced trajectories of the rifles utilizing them.

First off, if we look at the recommended zero range for the bullet to be sighted in, when compared to other traditional projectiles for the same weapon, whether it's the venerable .30-30 WCF, the .35 Remington or the .45-70 Gvt., virtually all comparisons are between the downrange trajectory of one of the new FTX bullets as loaded in the LeveRevolution Ammo sighted in essentially 3" high at 100 yards, as seen in Hornady's advertising. However, the other factory loads that the FTX ammo is compard with, are shown being zeroed at 100 yards. The results are already skewed, as we aren't comparing apples to apples, but rather apples to oranges in terms of the rifles zeroed yardage from the start.

As an example, I give below the real-world comparison between Hornady's LeveRevolution .45-70 Govt. 325g FTX load data directly from their website as it currently is displayed.


Now, compare the trajectory of the Beartooth Bullets BTB 350g PileDriver-Lite in the chart below.


Now, admittedly the Beartooth data above is shown with a 100 yard zero of 3.8 inches, but the illustrative point if this exercise is to demonstrate that how a weapon is zeroed makes a huge difference in downrange trajectory. As can be seen in the two accompanying charts of information, the actual real world advantage of the FTX bullet is a relatively moot point when we are discussing lever-action .45-70's in terms of trajectory.

Putting aside the issue of trajectory, we can then focus on a more meaningful aspect of bullet selection and that is terminal performance. While the FTX has proven itself in the game fields the last few years, it also relies upon expansion for enlarged permanent wound channel creation, whereas the wide-meplat hard-cast bullets so many lever-gun enthusiasts prefer, already have the necessary frontal area to impart large permanent wound channels from the point of impact until point of exit!

It's indeed a fun discussion, and one worthy of examination to be sure.

Have a great weekend all!

God bless,
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My new 45-70 go to load for deer-hornady-45-70-ftx-ammo.png   My new 45-70 go to load for deer-btb-350g-piledriver-lite.png  
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  #17  
Old 03-28-2011, 10:33 AM
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Thanks Mr. Stanton,
I hope your good post clears up a few things. Myself I could care less about the B.C. of a 45-70 projectile for what I am doing with it,whitetail deer at 0-150yds. And I'm sure the dead deer don't care that a 25gr. heavier bullet makes only .003 difference in B.C. When I shoot for B.C. I'll get out the .338 ultra with a GS Custom 295gr. SP with a B.C. of over 1.00....................
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  #18  
Old 04-24-2011, 08:25 PM
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Yep...I tried explaining this a few months back on Marlin Owners...the BC of the large caliber FTX bullets ain't all that great. Hornady is marketing them under the reputation they built with the 30-30 bullets (the 30-30 DOES benefit greatly from the FTX bullets)

Some believed me, some did not...I'm planning on doing a range test to prove the BC of my boolits is, in fact, better than the FTX bullets. I'm using 350 and 425 grain cast boolits (RD350's and RD425's) in my 45-70 BTW...not BTB's, but the principle is still the same. I have not yet concluded this lil test, but I'm working on it...

I shot 2 boxes of BT bullets...the only cast bullets I had ever fired in a rifle...and immediately knew I had to cast my own ...those BT 405 LFN/GC's shot like a laser in my Marlin.

Last edited by Ridgerunner665; 04-24-2011 at 08:39 PM.
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  #19  
Old 04-24-2011, 08:31 PM
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BC's of a few popular 45-70 bullets...for comparison, your average RN 45acp bullet has a BC of .186.

Sierra Pro Hunter 300 = .120
Barnes 250 grain TSX FN = .136
Barnes 300 grain TSX FN = .163
Swift A-Frame 350 = .170
Hornady 350 grain RN = .189
Nosler BST 300 = .191
Hornady 350 grain FN = .195
Hornady 300 grain HP = .197
Barnes Original 300 grain flat nose = .227
Hornady 325 Flex Tip = .230
Speer Hot Core 350 = .232
Ranch Dog 350 grain = .286

The problem with the large caliber FTX bullets is that the ogive is too steep, the nose is too short,,,and speaking strictly of trajectory, even a 425 grain bullet launched at 1,800-1,900 fps is only 3-4 inches lower at 300 yards than a 325 FTX, 350 cast, or whatever in that weight class...BC does matter because there are folks who shoot the 45-70's to 300 yards, its a common mistake that many people make when they set out to shoot at longer ranges...they look only at muzzle velocity, but without a decent BC all that velocity is just wasted powder.

AND...as I said over there, I'm NOT bashing Hornady...I like Hornady, always have. And I'm not trying to say the FTX's won't do a fine job on deer...I'm just adding a little to what Marshall said in regards to their trajectory.

Last edited by Ridgerunner665; 04-24-2011 at 08:49 PM.
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  #20  
Old 04-25-2011, 04:00 AM
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If I'm not mistaken the Speer 350 grainer is in the .270 B/C range. But to load it in a Marlin, it tooo needs to go into a shorter (Hornady length)case It works fine as is in a std length 45/70 case in an 86 action.
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