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  #1  
Old 03-20-2012, 04:23 PM
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Need help Browning 78 6mm


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I was recently given this rifle from my father who had it stored in a chest down in his basement for over 22 years. It probably hasn't been fired since a few years before that.

All I know about this rifle is that it is a Browning-78 6mm Rem, made in Japan. It has a tasco 6-18x40 #702tr scope on it. The bi-pod says "Harris 1A" directly above "111 Tralight". It also has a decorative strap attached between the bi-pod and the rifle.

I was wondering if anyone could give me any info on this rifle, or even the scope. I cant seem to find much about them anywhere. I plan on keeping it in the family, however, I am curious to know how much it is worth.

My main concern is getting this rifle cleaned up and ready to fire. I'm not sure of the best products/tools to use for the job. Also is there any ammo that works best with this rifle? Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Willing to add pictures if someone could tell me how I'm able to get permission to post attachments.

Thanks,
Nick
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  #2  
Old 03-21-2012, 11:00 AM
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bi-pod? on a b78? Please don't tell me someone hacked up one of those BEAUTIFUL rifles to mount a bipod on it. You have my jealousy peaked. I would love to have that exact rifle(minus any bipod). As to the price, there are far too many variables to pin down any specific price to what your rifle is worth.

I don't know anything about your scope.
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  #3  
Old 03-21-2012, 12:36 PM
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Yes, a bi-pod on a b78. It was on there from the previous owner when my dad brought it about 30 years ago. Still is absolutely beautiful though. Any ideas about posting attachments? I would love to cut down on some of those variables by posting pictures.
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  #4  
Old 03-21-2012, 01:33 PM
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Nothing odd about a bipod on this gun. It had a swivel stud on the front and putting a bipod on is no big deal. Lots of them were used as varmit guns. They shot lights out better than most off the shelf bolt actions.
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  #5  
Old 03-21-2012, 01:44 PM
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My rifle was definitely used as a varmint gun, it has different settings on the scope with different varmint ., I don't know what the settings do though.
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  #6  
Old 03-21-2012, 02:24 PM
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The bi-pod should come right off when the screw on the harris bi-bod is backed off, no problem.

Then the sling can be reattached to the rifle's sling stud without the bi-pod being in the way.

They can be usefull, but likely in the way most of the time.

The Tasco ----------------? If it works, use it. However, Tasco scopes as a whole are generaly low end products, and may or may not have issues on sharpness and adjustments etc.

AS I said, it it works use it, but if not then replace it with something of better quality. The rifle deserves it!

6mm is a good varmit and deer cartridge. Never as popular as the .243 Winchester, but not because it was any less of a cartridge. In fact it has a slight edge on the .243 in velocity.

If you use the rifle for deer, play it safe and stay with a good bullet of at least 100gr.

The 6mm was hurt to some degree because of the rate of rifling twist that Remington first used in their rifles, but if your Browning has a rate of twist in the 1 per 10" range, it should give good results with bullets in the 70 to 100gr range and maybe even those of lighter weights.

Enjoy that single shot!!!!!!!!!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
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  #7  
Old 03-21-2012, 02:55 PM
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[Then the sling can be reattached to the rifle's sling stud without the bi-pod being in the way.]

Browning B-78's were never issued with QD sling STUDS - they all had Pachmayr flush/recessed mounts that accepted a "T"-shaped stud on the sling loop with a half-twist.

AFAIK, Harris didn't make a bipod expressly for those flush swivel mounts, so the OP's forend might have been modified to acept a QD stud to mount the bi-pod, either as a replacement for the issue unit, or as a secondary location.

I had a heavy RB on my .6mm B78, but the octagon bbl'd versions shot just as good.


Subnick: The rifle, design is very close to the followning Browning M-1885 (they were both built by Miroku Firearms) - except that it has an "adjustable" trigger, while the M1885 does not.
So, if you go to the Browning website, you can download an owner's manual for at least the M-1885, if not for the B-78.

The Tasco scopes were the El Cheaopo scopes of the 1970's (the rifle dates from 1973-82) - and if you keep it for nostalgia, sobeit - but I would suggest replacing it with a modern scope if you want a real shooter.

The settings you're referring to are most likely references to either bullet drop, or holdover, at various ranges/distances for a particular load - a useful crib sheet, when afield & shootin at varying distances, with or w/o a rangefinder.


.

Last edited by Rangr44; 03-21-2012 at 03:02 PM.
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  #8  
Old 03-21-2012, 05:34 PM
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I just removed the bipod in order to see if there was a replacement or a secondary hole. No secondary hole, but I'm not sure what the stud should look like. Any tips? The bipod made impressions in the wood, which doesn't make me very happy, but still a beautiful rifle.
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  #9  
Old 03-22-2012, 09:06 AM
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Check your PM box for a message about uploading photos.
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  #10  
Old 03-22-2012, 08:49 PM
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Rangr44: you are correct about the B-78 being closely related to the following 1885, with the exception of the trigger assembly, but the 1885 trigger is indeed adjustable with the turn of an easily accessed screw (from 3 - 5 lbs). I'm not sure the B-78 trigger is adjustable; I'll have to ask my Australian friend who shoots one in .243.
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  #11  
Old 03-23-2012, 02:47 AM
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On cue Red Pepper ! Subnick, my '78 vintage round barrelled .243 B78 High Wall's used solely for hunting so I fitted a stud to the forearm for easily mounting a Harris bi-pod. Contrary to what's been said about Tasco scopes been relatively cheap I've heard that SOME models were equipped with high quality lenses. I don't know about the mentioned scope but if you're happy with overall optics, reticle, power range etc then why 'waste' your hard earned money on a 'better' alternative. As for the trigger, there are adjustment screws but I elected to have a competent Gunsmith tune mine to a crisp 2 pound pull - absolutely beautiful. Note, check to see if the half cock 'safety' mechanism works properly, if not, I can advise you how to readily fix the matter. Also, the barrel can be easily floated by lightly sanding the channel plus placing a full length aluminium spacer immediately below the hanger. Regarding recommending ammo, mine loves the following - Hornady 75 & 87 Gr V-Max's (for feral cats, foxes and kangaroos) and Sierra GameKing 100 Gr SBT's (for feral goats and pigs). In short, you're extremely lucky in scoring such a beautiful, slick, robustly constructed rifle - treasure it.
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Last edited by Ross Clifton; 03-23-2012 at 02:53 AM.
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  #12  
Old 03-23-2012, 06:40 AM
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It's a free country, for anyone to check on someone's veracity - in fact, I encourage it.

I adjusted the triggers on my B-78's, following the directions in my hardcopy of the Browning Field Service Manual (which I ordered from Browning shortly after buying my 1st new B-78).

A special tool IS needed, a small, two-pronged screwdriver, which the manual shows how to quickly fashion from a standard screwdriver - I used one of the small, aluminum-handled S&W screwdrivers that used to be included with N-Frame revolvers, since I have a few.

The issue B-78 sling swivel stock fitting looks like a blued, slightly-domed disc, a little smaller in diameter than a dime - with an open slot across the midlde, inline with the bore/bbl.
Inside the slot should be the top of a spring-loaded plunger.
The T-shaped head of the B-78 issue sling loop is pressed into the slot, also depressing the plunger enough, so the swivel loop can be turned 90-degrees, to be locked-in.

.

Last edited by Rangr44; 01-10-2013 at 04:51 PM.
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  #13  
Old 03-23-2012, 05:26 PM
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Rangr44 - The swivel on my stock is what you have described, however the front swivel fitting has a piece that screws in with a hole through it, allowing my bipod or sling to attach to it. So would this mean it was modified? If you need pictures I will post them.

Ross Clifton - I just checked to see if my half-cock mechanism works, and it doesn't, so feel free to explain how to fix it on here or with a PM. I would also like more information on floating the barrel if you don't mind. Thanks
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  #14  
Old 03-23-2012, 05:34 PM
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Rangr44, the following Tasco scope related data, sourced from 'The Firing Line' forum, confirms that the mentioned Tasco 6-18x40 #702tr scope is in fact one of their 'cheap' models;

TASCO TR SCOPE.... The scope is a Tasco TR 4X-16X with a Trajectory/Rangefinder reticule. RedHead (BassPro) used to sell it for $160. The glass is only OK, but the range finder is what makes it my choice! It is a very simple system and works very well. Tasco gives you 5 rings that go on the vertical adjustment knob. Each ring has yardage readings out to 500 or 300 yards in 50 yard increments. They tell you which ring to use for each rifle, but I went one better than that. I wrote a small BASIC program that takes the bullet and velocity that I use and calculates a least square fifth-order polynomial curve fit to the drop numbers in the Sierra Reloading Manual. I then have a third order polynomial equation for the drop out to 1000 yards. No, I don't shoot that far, but numbers are cheap! Setting zero at 100 yards and using the height of the scope over the bore, the program calculates the number of clicks below the line-of-sight for each range past 100 yards. I counted the yardage clicks on each ring and selected the ring that best fits my calculation. I have a ring that is calibrated within ±1 click, of the true drop setting, all the way out to 500 yards for the .243 100 gr. Spitzer at a muzzle velocity of 2900 fps.


In contrast, whilst comparing the merits of numerous variable power scopes recently at my local Gun Shop (eg. Leupold VX-3 4-5-14x50 Long Range, Zeiss Duralyt 3-12x50, Burris Laserscope Eliminator, plus a couple of even more expensive Swarovski and Schmidt & Benders) the sales person stated that he was recently offered A$800 for his OLD Tasco variable scope (model NOT stated) which he claimed had quality Bausch & Lomb optics - hence why I raised the notion of being mindful about making over-generalised statements. For example, from recollection Nikko Stirling scopes have been extensively marketed here in Australia for the past 4 decades. In recent times some of their models have been manufactured in China and, rightly or wrongly, some biased people are inclined to generally judge ALL Nikko Stirling scopes as essentially 'cheap and of poor quality'. Much like the sales person's unknown Tasco scope, my Japanese made 30mm tube Mil-Dot reticle saddle focus 10x42mm Diamond Supreme model simply doesn't fit that category.
Cheers, Ross.

In hindsight, paying $160 for a 4-16x40 scope sounds awfully CHEAP by TODAY'S monetary value but it was a considerable amount 3 to 4 decades ago. For consideration, I paid the princely sum of A$30 for a Japanese made Nikko Stirling Silver Crown Mount Chief 4x40mm scope for my 1956 BRNO Model 2 bolt action rimfire rifle and the optics are still as clear as the day I bought it back in 1976 (the same year that I bought the 20 year old BRNO, for A$90). Thankfully the rifle's appreciated over the years as a local Gunsmith claims I could now easily sell it for about A$600 !!
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Last edited by Ross Clifton; 03-24-2012 at 01:10 AM.
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  #15  
Old 03-23-2012, 06:24 PM
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Subnick, your ‘faulty’ half-cock ‘safety’ mechanism’s easily fixed with a very simple minute turn of an easily accessible screw, as per the following extract that I sourced from another forum :

“There are two screws on the trigger itself, the rear one is over travel and the front one controls the position of the connector bar, which trips the sear, which lets go of the hammer. The pull weight adjustment is in a hole in the receiver itself. The pull weight adjustment takes a 1/16 allen wrench, but the others require a 1.5mm. If the connector rests too far from the sear, it misses it when the trigger is pulled. If it’s too close the whole arrangement becomes inoperative. There is a critical point where things function. I even managed to get into a place where the trigger would trip from half cock !

In order to adjust the trigger take up, you need to adjust the large blued screw with the two little holes in it. Turn it clockwise and it should take up some of the slack, however you usually can’t get rid of all of it.”

Accordingly, I decided to minutely adjust ONLY the trigger’s connector bar sear engagement screw and, as mentioned above, I soon fortunately managed to find the critical point where the hammer persistently no longer falls to the fired position, from the half-cock position, when the trigger’s pulled.

For consideration - I've heard several people complain about the trigger on the Browning B78 High Wall. Mine initially had a little bit of free play, followed by a noticeable creep during which there was an annoying build up of tension before the hammer finally dropped. I was not content to consciously feel and think through the various stages of the trigger's movement. Hence, I sort the services of a competent / knowledgeable Gunsmith who, after some fiddling & filing etc has lightened the trigger down to about two pound, minus the creep and progressive tension.

Also, I found the original case extraction lever to be overly forceful - resulting in a very audible noise as it snapped open prior to loading (a sure way of scaring off nearby game), and flinging the case hard against the adjustable case guide behind the falling block. A very simple fix - unscrew the forearm, lower the lever and carefully dismantle the rather simple spring operated ejector assembly. Replace the original somewhat firm spring with one which has less tension, then re-assemble. Easy !

Unlike the contemporary 1885 model, the B78's barrel is NOT floated. Another easy fix - unscrew the forearm and carefully sand the upper curved walls of the channel (eg. with sand paper wrapped around a piece of dowel). Position a thin strip of metal (eg. aluminum), as a spacer, between the channel and the forearm's hanger. Re-attach the forearm and test the barrel clearance by sliding a piece of paper between the barrel and the forearm (if necessary, more sanding and/or add a slightly thicker spacer). When you're happy with the barrel clearance, seal the sanded channel (eg, with Linseed Oil) and then re-assemble.

Cheers, Ross.
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  #16  
Old 03-23-2012, 08:51 PM
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Pictures would help, and I'd like to see this rifle. See the instructions here: Posting Pictures
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  #17  
Old 03-24-2012, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Subnick View Post
Rangr44 - The swivel on my stock is what you have described, however the front swivel fitting has a piece that screws in with a hole through it, allowing my bipod or sling to attach to it. So would this mean it was modified? If you need pictures I will post them.

Ross Clifton - I just checked to see if my half-cock mechanism works, and it doesn't, so feel free to explain how to fix it on here or with a PM. I would also like more information on floating the barrel if you don't mind. Thanks
Your forearm's issue flush sling swivel socket's been removed, and replaced with a normal QD stud. Replacement flush mount socket's are available online (google).

If the hammer doesn't engage the half-cock notch, the most likely cause is that someone who didn't really know what they were doing tried "adjusting" the trigger - It first needs to be readjusted back to factory specs, then tuned to your druthers.

.
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  #18  
Old 03-24-2012, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Shawn Crea View Post
Pictures would help, and I'd like to see this rifle. See the instructions here: Posting Pictures
Tommorow if I get time, I'll take some nice new pictures of it, because I took the obnoxiously large bipod off of it. It looks 10x better now. I don't have the 25 posts required to post attachments myself, but Tnhunter kindly offered to post them for me.

Would anyone be able to recommend a nice scope for this rifle? I dont think the magnification settings work on my tasco scope. I will be using this rifle for long range target/varmint shooting. Therefore I'm thinking about a scope within the 6-18x range. Must be reasonably priced.

Also, are there things about my rifle that I have to keep in mind when buying the scope? Such as if the scope will mount correctly on my rifle? Ive never mounted a scope before, so if anyone can give me details about mounting a scope on the B78, that would be great.

Thank you all for your help, I really appreciate it.
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  #19  
Old 03-24-2012, 06:37 PM
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Subnick,
Let us know what 'reasonably priced' means to you. If looking for good value, I'd recommend Burris fullfield II scopes. I've had good luck with them. A 4.5-14x for $300, or 6.5-20x for $400, or therabouts. Shop around. Here's one source: Burris FullField II Riflescopes SALE Burris Fullfield 2 Scopes

Or Midway, same pricing: Search results for: burris 4 5-14
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Old 03-24-2012, 07:04 PM
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If you'd like to make a moderately expensive scope yours at reasonable cost, try HERE: Quality optics and accessories from Leupold, Bushnell, Burris, Nikon and more!

I've bought several scopes & mounts from those great Texas folks @ SWFA , over the years - some for almost 50% MSRP.
ALWAYS check their home page for whatever the weekly "special" is - I can guarantee a bargain.

They also have a used scope section, and take trade-ins..............

.
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