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-   -   H&R Handy Rifle: 45-70 vs 500SW (http://www.shootersforum.com/single-shot-rifles/86915-h-r-handy-rifle-45-70-vs-500sw.html)

taco650 09-22-2013 06:20 PM

H&R Handy Rifle: 45-70 vs 500SW
 
Somebody out there has shot this rifle in both calibers so tell me: which kicks more?

My guess is the 45-70 is more brutal but that's just a guess. Is the 444 Marlin worse than the other two? Somebody please tell me!!! LOL!

pisgah 09-22-2013 07:11 PM

What loads are you comparing? Any can be loaded from mouse-fart level, through detach-your-retina, right on up to rip-your-shoulder-off-your-body.;):)

broom_jm 09-23-2013 02:11 AM

Any of the above, loaded to their greatest potential, fired from a lightweight single-shot action is going to let you know you touched one off. The question of which one kicks more is going to be largely subjective.

The 444 Marlin is likely to be the mildest of all three, if they are each loaded to hot, yet safe levels. The 45/70 loads intended for a Ruger #1 are going to be brutal, for sure. I'm not sure why they chamber the 500S&W in the Handi Rifle...to my way of thinking, it's just too big around.

taco650 09-23-2013 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pisgah (Post 698488)
What loads are you comparing? Any can be loaded from mouse-fart level, through detach-your-retina, right on up to rip-your-shoulder-off-your-body.;):)

True but I'm thinking about factory loads.

VA Bigbore 09-23-2013 12:54 PM

I have a 45-70 NEF and I do not think the recoil is that bad. I have shot new fctory rounds from my rifle and found it pleasant. Maybe because of the short barrel and slow burning powder. I suspect a lot of the powder is expelled from f he barrel unburnt. With that said I have shot the 444 in a Marlin 336 and found it just short of unpleasant around the 5th round and no fun after about 10 shots. I have no experience with the 500 S&W but I have fired a lot of 50 Beowulf which is very simular. If your looking to purchase I myself would opt for the 45-70. You have better bullet selection, cheaper components and factory ammo, and a good chance you can find the ammo if needed.

broom_jm 09-23-2013 03:21 PM

...plus, there is TONS of "reduced recoil" load data for 45/70 that can be used to make your rifle what you want it to be.

taco650 09-24-2013 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broom_jm (Post 698592)
...plus, there is TONS of "reduced recoil" load data for 45/70 that can be used to make your rifle what you want it to be.

Good advice. The 444 doesn't really interest me except that I have two 44mag revolvers already and the ability to cast bullets in for them. The 500SW is interesting only because its a 50 cal. 45-70 is the "practical" choice.

rfd 09-24-2013 05:26 AM

all of the mentioned calibers are natural candidates tailored reloading. i've shot all of 'em and prefer the 45-70. i own a pair of H&R's in 45-70, the buffalo classic and ultra hunter.

really light recoil loads are easily created using trail boss powder, if need be. plus, the addition of a stock mercury recoil tube and/or a butt recoil pad can make a light load feel like a .22lr rimifre. i load 12 grains of tb under a 405 grain commercial lead bullet for a fun load that my 11yo grandaughter can shoot accurately to 100 yards out of either H&R. my long range shooting loads are aa5744 with heavy bullets in the 500 to 535 grain range.

it's all good, but i do believe the 45-70 caliber (or any large caliber round) is really limited when used strictly with the limited versions of commercial ammo. handloading this caliber is way too easy, too. any single stage press will get the job done fast, or even one of those lee hand presses. neck resizing/deprime at best (NO full length resizing needed), prime, expand, charge, seat the bullet and no crimp is wanted for a single shot rifle. some folks don't even bother resizing and just deprime/prime, charge and seat. enjoy.

Cherry Ridge Range, NJ, 9/11/13 - YouTube

taco650 09-24-2013 09:36 AM

I would reload for any caliber I got. I've seen these rifles on Cheaper Than Dirt and sometimes they list the 500sw and 444 for less $$$. Money talks with me and I sorta like the appeal of having something a little bit different. However, this battles with my practical nature and 45-70 is the practical choice simply because the brass more readily available. I can only own one and they all will do the same job (be a big bore toy) sooo...

action1250 09-24-2013 02:13 PM

Don't have an answer to the question but I have an H&R Handi Rifle in 45/70 for sale if someone is interested.
Shot 5 time to zero.
[email protected]

Tater 09-24-2013 02:20 PM

With longer barrel velocities, I think the 500S&W would knock me over.

taco650 09-24-2013 02:35 PM

emailed you.

taco650 09-24-2013 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tater (Post 698724)
With longer barrel velocities, I think the 500S&W would knock me over.

I've watched a few youtube videos of the Handi Rifles in 500sw being fired. They don't look like they kick any more than the 45-70 would. Bullet weights/velocities are about the same too just one is long/slender, the other short/fat.

rfd 09-24-2013 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tater (Post 698724)
With longer barrel velocities, I think the 500S&W would knock me over.

realize that with all three cartridges mentioned in this thread, it's not about the cartridge, it's all about the cartridge load and how the cartridge/rifle will be predominantly used by ... you, not me, or them.

as already mentioned by taco, the venerable 140+ year old 45-70 is far more common than the other two flavors.

in choosing a specific cartridge, check out the load data and rifle types, availablity and pricing, as those apply to the task you have in mind for such a rifle. get as personal about the facts as possible and research the round's use and capabilities.

that's about it. choose wisely. :cool:

Rich Lawrence 09-24-2013 02:42 PM

500 S&W Magnum
 
Gentlemen:

You do not want to shoot a .500 S&W Magnum Handi Rifle using Hornady 350 grain XTP/MAG rounds—especially on a bench.

I found that the Handi Rifles respond to ammunition, rifle scope, and scope mount changes.

The .500 S&W Magnum took some experimentation. Shooting Hornady 300 grain SST/FTT and 350 grain XTP/MAG rounds, my original Burris scope and mounts couldn't handle the recoil. (I wasn't enjoying it either.) But it wasn't just the scope; the Hornady rounds wouldn't hold a 9-inch group at 100 yards.

I switched to MAGTECH 325 grain SJSP rounds, and I mounted an IOR 4x32 scope. Problem(s) solved. The rifle still shoots 1.5-inch groups at 100 yards, and I can actually fire the rifle without using a Lead Sled. The recoil is down dramatically.

Sighted in at 100 yards with the MAGTECH ammo described above, the .500 S&W rounds drop 3.5-inches at 150 yards and 9-inches at 200 yards.

I carry a box of Hornady 350 gr. XTP rounds whenever I go to the range. Someone always wants to shoot the .500 S&W, so I hand the shooter the box of Hornady rounds and the rifle, and I advise him to pull the rifle into his shoulder. No one shoots it twice.

The MAGTECH data follows:

500 S&W 325 Grain Semi Jacketed Soft Point Flat
Symbol: 500B
BULLET
Bullet Style: SJSP
Weight (Grains): 325
Weight (Grams): 21.06
Diameter (inches): 0.499
Sectional Density: 0.187
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.197

Carpe Diem 09-24-2013 02:49 PM

Quote:

True but I'm thinking about factory loads.
With factory loads it is very simple - the .500 kicks a lot more.


.

CTI1USNRET 09-24-2013 03:02 PM

I have the Handy Rifle in 45-70 ( I think it's 20 inches. ) and it's a lot of fun. Remington 405 gr SP factory loads and their handload equivalents are pleasant to shoot.

I've completed the 'manhood testing' phase of reloading for it. I've tried loads that pushed a Rem 405 gr SP to 1900 fps.

My load is now 40.0 gr of Rx7 behind a 405 gr cast bullet.

RussB 09-24-2013 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carpe Diem (Post 698738)
With factory loads it is very simple - the .500 kicks a lot more............

My thoughts exactly!:eek:

Russ

fornra 09-24-2013 03:46 PM

I think in practical terms, I look at what the bullet is going to do when it get's there!
First off any 45 cal bullet is going to be longer than a 50 cal of the same weight; More penetration and less likeyhood of deflecting off coarse when traveling thru a tough animal.
I know that either can be loaded to painful levels in a Handi Rifle and it doesn't take a really hot load to get that way,(Newtons Law comes into effect here)!
I wouldn't be afraid to shoot any animal on the planet with my 1895 loaded with Beartooth 525 gr Pile Drivers, and I wouldn't try and push them faster than 1550 fps either.
If I had a 500 S&W I would find a load that I was comfortable with and go hunting, plain as that!

taco650 09-24-2013 06:02 PM

How much do these rifles weigh with iron sights? Scoped? I don't need my manhood tested, I just want something with a giant hole in the end of the barrel that lobs big pieces of lead. All three of these can do that with ease.

Another question. What power level of 45-70reloads are safe in the Handi Rifle? Ruger #1, 1895 Marlin or Trapdoor? I'm talking about the mechanics of the rifle itself, not my shoulders ability to absorb the recoil.


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