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  #1  
Old 05-24-2004, 03:17 AM
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Question 35 Whelen vs 35 Ackley Whelen Improved


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What is the difference between the two. I know there is factory ammo for the standard 35 Whelen. What about the Ackley Improved? What modifications need to be done to 35 Whelen to fire the improved round? Any reloading data?
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  #2  
Old 05-24-2004, 07:31 AM
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The usual "improved" cartridges require the chamber to be reamed out resulting in a sharper shoulder and straighter body to the case. Normally, improving a cartridge will increase the case capacity and resultant velocity in the neighborhood of 4% to 8%, depending on the amount of capacity expansion. Some cartridges lend themselves quite well to the improving process while others really don't benefit all that much as far as increased velocity. The less body taper will result in less bolt face thrust and the sharper shoulder will allow better headspacing and case stretching with each firing, which means more reloads before having to discard the brass.

No, there are no commercial loadings for improved cartridges - it is a handloading proposition only. Not really all that hard to fireform cases for the improved configuration. Simply shoot the loaded factory or handloaded standard cartridges in the improved chamber and the cases will form to the new form. After that, neck sizing only or partial full length resizing will be required.

Most reloading manuals will not list loadings for improved cartridges - those that do will only have a few of the more popular improved cartridges listed. Nosler is one that comes to mind. No big trick to establish though. Just use the standard cartridge loadings and work your way up in small increments of half to full grain loads until you reach a comfortable power level. A chronograph is a very useful tool in this work. Watch for all the normal high pressure signs and if encountered, back off the loads a couple of grains.
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  #3  
Old 07-14-2004, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrlechner
What is the difference between the two. I know there is factory ammo for the standard 35 Whelen. What about the Ackley Improved? What modifications need to be done to 35 Whelen to fire the improved round? Any reloading data?

The 35 Whelen is so good that I can't imagine changing anything......this is probably not one that is worth the expense....the standard 35 Whelen is a wonderful adaptation of the 30/06.
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  #4  
Old 07-21-2004, 09:37 AM
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I owned and used a .350 Elliott Express, a variant of the .35 Brown Whelen for many years. Had a slightly shorter neck and about the same steep shoulder as the Brown. Was a lot of fun, but it was also a 100% handloading operation, and that was it's problem. I could spend more time making new cases for it out of .30-06 brass than I could shooting it.. The round was great, but why fool around with the difficult to build wildcat when you have factory .35 Whelen available, or better yet, 9.3x62mm and 9.3x64mm available? It is all a matter of choice. If you love handloading, go for it.

Larry
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  #5  
Old 07-21-2004, 03:20 PM
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Guess us old Missouri boys are thinkin' alike on this one. (I was born and raised in Boone County, MO.)

MTMRolla is right. The Whelen is great as is. It's the poor man's magnum. I see no reason to tweek it except just "for the halibut."

Wayne Van Zwoll makes about the most sense of any current gun writer. In his book "Elk Rifles and Elk Hunting" he talks about his Whelen Improved and admits that the ballistic advantage is minimal. He says he isn't tempted to build any more.

I love my Model 700 Classic Whelen. It has been effective on a fair variety of game for me: antelope, whitetail, elk, and mountain lion, all with factory ammo.
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  #6  
Old 07-31-2004, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtmrolla
The 35 Whelen is so good that I can't imagine changing anything......this is probably not one that is worth the expense....the standard 35 Whelen is a wonderful adaptation of the 30/06.
Having owned a 35 whelan since 1987 when remington first came out I can think of only one reason. The very slight shoulder makes setting the sizing die a little fussy. Its easy to push the case in too far and end up with too short of headspace. The result is a blown primer. The sharp should would inprove this. Since the cost to rent a reamer is the same, why not use the improved chamber. It won't limit you in any way and you get the benefits of easier reloading, and marginally better balistics.
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Old 08-05-2004, 09:51 PM
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I've got an article on the .35 Whelen AI that was sent by another forum member that might shed some light on the difference in ballistics. I've also got a commercial Mauser with a 25 inch tube with the AI chamber. If you would like me to send you the article, let me know and I'll try to dig it up for you. Send a PM with email address if you're interested.

In my rifle the difference between factory published ballistics and my results in my rifle are signifigant, but not earth shattering, and I believe the longer barrel has more than a little bit to do with the results.
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  #8  
Old 08-09-2004, 03:58 AM
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jr,

This question has a really simple answer; it is contained in the posts above, but not all in one place.

*II* you are building a new rifle, and *IF* you are a handloader, then build the AI version. If you currently have a .35 Whelen rifle or if you aren't (or don't want to become) a handloader, stick with the factory round.

The AI version will give slight improvement in velocity, but no game animal will ever know the difference. It will give significatnly longer case life, but that isn't an issue anyway if you're using factory ammunition, or buying standard unfired cases... they are cheap. You will have to do less case trimming with the AI, assuming you are a handloader. As for lower bolt thrust with the AI, it is of no concern... your rifle can stand the thrust of the factory round (some assumptions built into that statement).

Cheers/buffler
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  #9  
Old 08-18-2004, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrlechner
What is the difference between the two. I know there is factory ammo for the standard 35 Whelen. What about the Ackley Improved? What modifications need to be done to 35 Whelen to fire the improved round? Any reloading data?

Good Question. My experience with the standard 35 Whelen is long. I've only seen one Improved. The owner said for all practicle uses the stadard was as good because he never saw any difference in th field, on elk, moose and brown bear. My wife and I both use 35 W 's. She has taken Eland, Sable, Kudu, Widebeast, and smaller African antelope all with one shot each. Our PH said it performs similar to the 9.3X62 mm. (I wouldn't know, never used one). My own use of the 35 W caliber over nearly 36 years has been on about 110 head of North American game. A couple of score of these were moose elk and 4 big brown bear. The experience has left me with no complaints about the cartridge.
Longest shot referenced in my hunting notes was about 350 yds at a Brown bear shot in the foot with a .338 by a poor shot. One 250 gr speer spitzer put him down. Penetration with this bullet has been great, the 250 Noslert works good as well. Given my experience with the standard Whelen I can't see why the improved version would not be at least as good, maybe a mite better in some circumstances. Good hunting and good luck with your project.
Tekaan
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  #10  
Old 05-22-2011, 06:28 PM
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I had a MkX Mauser built about 25 yrs ago in .35 Whelen Ack. Imp. with an Eagle barrel carrying a 14" twist. This rifle will cut 5-round cloverleafs at 100 yds using the Speer 250 gr. spitzer over 54.0 grs IMR 3031. All available loading data show this load at 2500 fps at the muzzle. It will fire Remington .35 Whelen ammo with very nearly the same accuracy, delivering fireformed .35 Whelen Ack. Imp. brass upon extraction.
I'm a big fan of this cartridge.
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  #11  
Old 05-24-2011, 04:28 PM
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I have loaded and used the 35 Whelen since 1966, back when it was a true wildcat. I have made 'one-shot' kills on 24 deer, 4 elk, and 2 bear with that rifle and the longest shot was 325 yards on two white tale.

Long ago I settled on the Speer 250gr spitzer. I used to use IMR 4895 but recently shifted to RL 15, and both powders will consistently shoot under 1 inch at 100 yards.

I have never had a "head spacing" problem -- any good reloader can easily adjust dies to know how/if he is bumping the shoulder back.

From everything that I have read the AI Whelen only produced about 50-75 fps "improvement" in velocity. Inside 300 yards you need to ask yourself and decide if that is really what you want.

I do recommend that if you build a Whelen (either standard or AI) that you order a barrel that has a twist to handle heavier bullets. When Remington standardized the Whelen they really messed up selecting a 1:16 twist. Get yourself a barrel with at least a 1:12 twist rate to provide you the option of using heavier (longer) bullets.

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  #12  
Old 05-24-2011, 06:53 PM
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Real interesting reading as the OP is 7yrs old today.
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  #13  
Old 05-25-2011, 03:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old roper View Post
Real interesting reading as the OP is 7yrs old today.
...and has apparently never even been back to check the replies.
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  #14  
Old 05-25-2011, 07:22 AM
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This definitely just helped me out. We (father and myself) are currently building a .35 whelen to add to our array of his custom built mauser 98's. I have been researching tons of different cartridges to re-chamber this gun in and we settled on the .35w. Just haven't decided if we are going AI or not. We do all of our own handloads for our hunting rifles anyways. I choose this caliber because I wanted something over .30 cal(we have 98's in .243win, .264win mag, and 7x57. As well as a sporterized 03A3 in .30-06 of course) that could handle anything I could ever want to take in North America, as I don't see myself doing any african safari's anytime soon..... Thanks for the informations about the twist rates as well! I am really glad it was bumped from 7years ago, because google found it!
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  #15  
Old 05-25-2011, 09:56 AM
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96superflow,

Welcome to the forum.

A 35 Whelen in a real Maurse action sounds sweet!
Post some pictures of your project if you can.
..
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  #16  
Old 05-26-2011, 03:35 AM
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Thanks for the welcome! I Will see what I can do about the pics! Not much to see yet, still have to send it out to get re-barreled! I think we are going to go with at least a 1 in 12" Douglas... Fitting it to the weatherby stock has been fun! And I can't wait to do all the polishing work to it and a couple of our other guns that need bluing!
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  #17  
Old 06-12-2011, 04:57 PM
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35 Whelen

The guys said it all only thing I can add is if you ever want to sell the rifle a wildcat limits your buyers many folks are leary of non standard chamberings.Its a fine round as is. Frank C.
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  #18  
Old 06-23-2011, 08:41 AM
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Hello SF, This thread may be old but the 35 Whelen is timeless. I recently finished building up a 35 Whelen on a bare 98 action using a A&B barrel, Bold trigger w/safety, Williams fire sights that I soldered on, finished in AlumnaHyde II in OD green, with a Fajen camo stock, Center Point scope and a sling from W-M. I have been meaning to get out and shoot it but have gotten too buisy this Spring. That has all changed now that I drew a Moose permit for this Oct ( I live in NewHampshire). I will be loading up some pills tonight and hope to get to the range Sat or Sun. For the first time in my life I have named a rifle. I am calling this on my mooseknockerdowner! NH
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Old 12-27-2011, 05:34 AM
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I love my 35 Whelen Ackley very much, and other day I ran across a cherry S/42 1938 K98 complete rifle that is going to make a very nice donor action for my 35's bigger twin Brother, a 375 Whelen Ackley. Some day I'll figure out what to do with all the extra spare parts, but in the mean time I'll be having fun building, and shooting my new rifle.
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  #20  
Old 12-29-2011, 11:17 AM
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Maybe the improved cartridges just look cool to some folks....

I saw a picture of an improved 35 whelen. It was a neat looking round.

Lets face it, that's why some cartridges are popular. The 30-06 looks like what a cartridge should look like, but the 300 WSM has a stout strong look to it. But no animal can tell the difference. Both are cool looking and therefore popular. The 300 H&H on the other hand. Eh. Doesn't look strong/cool. It is a good cartridge in reality though.

Last edited by GMFWoodchuck; 12-29-2011 at 11:20 AM.
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