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  #1  
Old 05-31-2004, 11:32 PM
no3 no3 is offline
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Exclamation .243 Win Vs .243 Win Ackley Improved


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G'day Fellas
I want to put a question that has been rattling around in my brain for a while.
Here goes!, I have a mod 70 Winchester rifle(Nice )in .243 Win with the barrel about shot out and as I love the .243 round,Iam going to get it re barreled for etheir .243 Win again or for the .243 Ackley Improved,it will be one of these rounds.
I read on this forum about the gain for this cartridge(Ackley) is about 8.1% over the standard .243
Would I be on the right track if I got it rebarreled for the Ackley case?
What do you fellas think out there?,I need some info to help make up my mind.
I'm sending the gun away next week to the gunsmith to rebarrel my gun,so I've got to tell him what I want
Bloody hard decision!
Thanks for any help fellas
Dale (no3)
Bemm River Australia
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  #2  
Old 06-01-2004, 01:30 AM
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First of all, are you sure you need to rebarrel? One solution to throat erosion not often mentioned by gunsmiths is to pull the barrel, cut a half inch or so off the chamber end, rechamber, rethread and re-install. That way a proven barrel keeps right on going. The inletting won't match perfectly, but if it saves you a bunch of money and gives you the benefit of a proven barrel you are already happy with, then maybe it is a consideration. How many rounds have you put through your .243? Were these 100grs around 3,000 or light bullets at 3,300 plus? I would think it should take 3,000 rounds or so given the fact that the .308 is generally considered to have a 5,000 round barrel life.

As for velocity gain, increasing the powder capacity by 8% will provide roughly 4% increase in velocity at the same pressure. It will also burn out the barrel that much faster. The difference in trajectory or wind drift is miniscule for that small an increase in velocity.
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  #3  
Old 06-01-2004, 07:23 AM
The Troll Whisperer (Moderator)
 
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Had a Remington 600 rechambered to 243 AI some years back. With that 18 bbl, the muzzle blast was impressive!

The fireformed cases had greater longivity, of course, due to the straightened body and sharper shoulder. Semi-resizing (leaving a 3/32nd portion of the neck unsized) made the cases last until the primer pockets finally became too enlarged.

The 4% velocity gain is about correct. Accuracy didn't really improve much - just got there a little faster. The slow twist to the Mod 600 and the faster velocity pretty much relegated it to the 85 grain bullets for best accuracy.
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  #4  
Old 06-01-2004, 04:38 PM
no3 no3 is offline
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Thanks Fellas
My .243 Win has had about 3000 to 3500 rounds through it and then it was second hand,but in new condition (fired only 200 rdns) bought off a mate very cheap along time ago only fire about 200 rounds a year,if that.half of these rounds where
80gr to 100gr with a few 55gr chucked in for fun.
I might give the Ackley a go this time around,as if I don't like it I can always sell it & buy another .243W
Thanks for your help
Dale (no3)

Last edited by no3; 06-01-2004 at 04:42 PM.
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  #5  
Old 06-02-2004, 05:34 AM
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You might consider having your barrel reamed out for 250-3000 cartridge.
TR
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  #6  
Old 06-02-2004, 07:29 PM
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Talking 243 Ack.

You have already shoot the 243 so why not try the 243 Ack. Imp..I just think it's a little more fun to have something a little different than everyone else has. But the choice is yours so spin the wheel and good luck. Happy shooting
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  #7  
Old 06-05-2004, 02:38 AM
no3 no3 is offline
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Hoeram
I have gone for the .243 Ackley,sent my rifle to the gunsmith yesterday,will take about 4 weeks for he has a lot on,very popular gunsmith in the land of oz.
Yeah I reckon it will be different than the .243 Win,if it is any better than that round,then I'll be happy for it is a fine cartridge the old .243 Win.
See ya
no3
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  #8  
Old 06-05-2004, 02:43 AM
no3 no3 is offline
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T.R.
No, I never even thought about the 250.3000,that's a good round too,but I 've already sent the gun away with the instructions for the gunsmith to re barrel to .243 Win Ackley Imp,so got my heart set on it now.
See ya
no3
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  #9  
Old 06-06-2004, 06:35 PM
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I hunt 'lopes each October in Butte County, South Dakota with my aging Remington slide action rifle. It's chambered for the .243 which I greatly respect for long distance shooting. Many bullets have been used successfully. Favorites include 80 grain Sierra Pro Hunter and 95 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip. Either bullet will topple antelope way out there beyond the 300 yard mark with a double lung shot.

I've knocked down many mulies with this rifle and so have several extended family members. It has been borrowed many times! I prefer Nosler's excellent Partition bullet for its accurasy and remakable penetration for such a light bullet.

I suggest getting familiar with the "plain" .243 before spending any money on so-called improved version. You might just find that Winchester's .243 will topple mule deer same as a .270 but with less recoil and less noise. For the hunter who knows the landscape and animals habits, even the 30-30 and 35 are quite lethal indeed!
TR
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  #10  
Old 06-07-2004, 02:49 PM
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Another theoretical benefit I've read to the Ackley version of the .243 is improved barrel life. Although this goes against common sense because the AI gives a little higher velocity. It seems the shoulder geometry of the std. 243 forces powder and gases into the throat with more force than the sharp-shouldered AI version, which gives the 243W the reputation as a barrel-eater. Although this seems like it'd apply to all AIs, it is supposedly most measurable in the 243 version. Even if it's hogwash, the AI version makes sense from a case life standpoint alone (especially with your high volume of fire), even if the velocity increase and barrel life increase is negligable, especially if a rechamber or rebarrel is required anyway. I have little experience with either the 243 or 243AI, but other Ackleys I've played with were worth the effort. I think you made a good choice, assuming your rifle feeds well (and it should). Let us know how it does when you get it back.
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  #11  
Old 06-07-2004, 03:34 PM
The Troll Whisperer (Moderator)
 
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As stated previously, I never saw a great gain in effeciency going from the standard .243W in my old Rem Mod 600, other than better case life.

There are just some cases that don't benefit all that much from improving - the .243 and the 30-06 being a couple of good examples. The ballistics for my present 6.5-06 show that conversely, there's a decline in efficiency when being modified to an improved configuration. P.O. Ackley himself, said the 30-06 case just wasn't a good candidate for improving. The .243 case suffers the same fate.
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  #12  
Old 06-07-2004, 06:48 PM
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243 ack imp

no3

Enjoy your 243 Ack Imp. and let use know how it shoots I think you'll like it.


hoeram
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  #13  
Old 06-09-2004, 02:17 AM
no3 no3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T.R.
I hunt 'lopes each October in Butte County, South Dakota with my aging Remington slide action rifle. It's chambered for the .243 which I greatly respect for long distance shooting. Many bullets have been used successfully. Favorites include 80 grain Sierra Pro Hunter and 95 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip. Either bullet will topple antelope way out there beyond the 300 yard mark with a double lung shot.

I've knocked down many mulies with this rifle and so have several extended family members. It has been borrowed many times! I prefer Nosler's excellent Partition bullet for its accurasy and remakable penetration for such a light bullet.

I suggest getting familiar with the "plain" .243 before spending any money on so-called improved version. You might just find that Winchester's .243 will topple mule deer same as a .270 but with less recoil and less noise. For the hunter who knows the landscape and animals habits, even the 30-30 and 35 are quite lethal indeed!
TR
TR
Don't get me wrong,I love the .243Win and have had great sucess with it,hunting feral pigs & goats it is a bit light for the deer here that I hunt for and there for illegal to use for deer hunting,I know,it's crap,but hey
I have great respect for this cartridge,but every man and his dog has one,I just want to be different,hence going for the Improved version,but that's just my opinion.
Here in Victoria(Australia) the legal minumum caliber for hunting Sambar deer is .270 with a 130gr bullet.
And watch out if your caught with something smaller you lose your licence,gun and a big fine,plus your deer licence.
Cheers Mate
Dale (no3)
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  #14  
Old 06-09-2004, 02:21 AM
no3 no3 is offline
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Shoot
I agree with you thats what I found out when deciding weather to go for the Improved or not.
But I'm after long case life and just want to be different.
Cheers
No3
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  #15  
Old 06-09-2004, 02:38 AM
no3 no3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdub
As stated previously, I never saw a great gain in effeciency going from the standard .243W in my old Rem Mod 600, other than better case life.

There are just some cases that don't benefit all that much from improving - the .243 and the 30-06 being a couple of good examples. The ballistics for my present 6.5-06 show that conversely, there's a decline in efficiency when being modified to an improved configuration. P.O. Ackley himself, said the 30-06 case just wasn't a good candidate for improving. The .243 case suffers the same fate.
Kdub
I hope to get good case life too out of the improved version.
I have Load From A Disk ballistic program and run a few test samples through it,velociteswere up by 50 to70 fps using a Speer TNT HP70gr with AR2209 (ADI)powder and pressure was 180-190 cup below the standard .243.
I know it's not much in velocity or pressure,but if the improved can do it with a bit less pressure then I'm all for it.
Powder weights:
.243 Win 43.9 cup:47551 velocity:3570
.243W AI 46.6 cup:47366 velocity:3620
I like it!
Cheers
Dale (No3)
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  #16  
Old 06-09-2004, 02:43 AM
no3 no3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoeram
no3

Enjoy your 243 Ack Imp. and let use know how it shoots I think you'll like it.


hoeram
Hoearm
I will enjoy it and I'll let ya know how it shoots.
I just love the way the Ackley Improved cases look,mean and fat.
As I said in an earlier post,if I don't like it,I will sell it and buy a .243 Win again or a .243WSM or is it WSSM???.
Bye
Dale No3
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  #17  
Old 06-10-2004, 08:48 AM
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Hey No3,

I'm happy to hear that you decided on the 243 AI because it is a great cartridge. My friend has been using one for years now and swears by it. He notes significant velocity gains over the regular 243. By comparison, my 6mm-284 could barely manage to outdo it! In fact, I have decided that if I were to do it all over again, I would rather have a 243AI than a 6mm-284. It uses less powder and has a lot of punch. He uses it on mule deer and they fall like they have been pole-axed when hit. Good luck, I think you made a good decision!
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  #18  
Old 06-10-2004, 03:34 PM
no3 no3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesW
Hey No3,

I'm happy to hear that you decided on the 243 AI because it is a great cartridge. My friend has been using one for years now and swears by it. He notes significant velocity gains over the regular 243. By comparison, my 6mm-284 could barely manage to outdo it! In fact, I have decided that if I were to do it all over again, I would rather have a 243AI than a 6mm-284. It uses less powder and has a lot of punch. He uses it on mule deer and they fall like they have been pole-axed when hit. Good luck, I think you made a good decision!
CharlesW
Yep,I think I chose the right one,it was a difficult decesion to make for I like and respect what the standard .243 Win can do,I've had plenty of success with it.
As I said in an earlier post every man & his dog has a .243Win,so I thought to go with the Improved version just to be different.
You know what the hardest thing is about .243Win Vs .243Win AI is?
The bloody wait for the rifle to come back
I can not wait to get my hands on it to try on some goats around the place.
Cheers
Dale (no3)
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  #19  
Old 06-10-2004, 07:13 PM
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Good luck with your new barrell. I have a 6mm rem AI and like it. Last time I tried, I was getting 3600 fps with 85gn bullets.
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  #20  
Old 06-10-2004, 10:57 PM
no3 no3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiecolector
Good luck with your new barrell. I have a 6mm rem AI and like it. Last time I tried, I was getting 3600 fps with 85gn bullets.
aussiecolector
You know I was nearly going to buy a 6mm Rem a few years back,but the price was a bit high,so I bought the .243 instead.
The 6mm Rem holds a bit more powder than the .243,but they are nearly the same,i think the Rem round might be 80-100 fps faster in some bullet weights,well that was what I was told.
Any way I think I'll enjoy the 243 AI,I'll let everyone know how it goes.
I sent the rifle to MAB engineering of Qld,they do great work there,got a 22/250 AI done through them,a bloody rocket it is.
Cheers mate
Dale (no3)
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