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  #1  
Old 11-02-2005, 09:01 PM
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457 Wild West Magnum


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Here's an interesting calibre for you 45 lovers out there. Any info on this caliber?

Talk about a nice gun...even an option in .50 Alaskan!

Website

http://www.wildwestguns.com/CoPilot_...de_rifles.html

Pics

http://www.wildwestguns.com/CoPilot_...copilotred.jpg

http://www.wildwestguns.com/CoPilot_...ksafclubcp.jpg


Anyone know anything about these guys?
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  #2  
Old 11-02-2005, 09:30 PM
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.457 mag

Warlock, this is not by any means a wildcat. First off they opend up the throat and lengthened the brass-still a .45-70. In this caliber you buy their highly priced brass for like $34 per 20 and if you shoot standard sized rounds thru then you not only have inaccuracies due to the throat being some distance away and a fouled chamber that must be cleaned before shooting the acclaimed .457 round. They max out the powder charges for their so called round that is still equivalent to the designed pressures of the .45-70 -45000psi. You see I ashamedly own a Marlin exactly like the one you see with the exception of the breakdown. I would not do it again. I can say after I firelapped my bore and used Marshalls bullets I am getting excellent accuracies out the .457 but with the same bullet in the .45-70 shooting lead of course my bullets spread out-throating problem. So if you can afford to shoot their brass I say go ahead but the .45-70 is sufficient in regards to all the killing power, instead of maxin out the pressures of the rifle and beatin it up and you. Furthermore if I wanted to shoot accurately, loads that are designed for the .45-70 then I expect to size my throat for a bullet to almost kiss the riflings for any lead bullet to be accurate. As I said a shame. Don't get me wrong, their craftsmenship is very good and they are very high priced and the sales guys attitude literally sucks. The smith is cordial and will work with you but the other fella ....not much good to say ----hope he sees the Light. I was anxious about their efforts and jumped and boy did I jump----neverrrrrr again
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  #3  
Old 11-03-2005, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grizz106
Warlock, this is not by any means a wildcat. First off they opend up the throat and lengthened the brass-still a .45-70. In this caliber you buy their highly priced brass for like $34 per 20 and if you shoot standard sized rounds thru then you not only have inaccuracies due to the throat being some distance away and a fouled chamber that must be cleaned before shooting the acclaimed .457 round. They max out the powder charges for their so called round that is still equivalent to the designed pressures of the .45-70 -45000psi. You see I ashamedly own a Marlin exactly like the one you see with the exception of the breakdown. I would not do it again. I can say after I firelapped my bore and used Marshalls bullets I am getting excellent accuracies out the .457 but with the same bullet in the .45-70 shooting lead of course my bullets spread out-throating problem. So if you can afford to shoot their brass I say go ahead but the .45-70 is sufficient in regards to all the killing power, instead of maxin out the pressures of the rifle and beatin it up and you. Furthermore if I wanted to shoot accurately, loads that are designed for the .45-70 then I expect to size my throat for a bullet to almost kiss the riflings for any lead bullet to be accurate. As I said a shame. Don't get me wrong, their craftsmenship is very good and they are very high priced and the sales guys attitude literally sucks. The smith is cordial and will work with you but the other fella ....not much good to say ----hope he sees the Light. I was anxious about their efforts and jumped and boy did I jump----neverrrrrr again
Interesting thing is...I checked the ballistics of garrett's 45-70 bullets and found them to be virtually identical to this 457 wildcat...there is maybe a 50fps difference at most.

Smells like BS to me.
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  #4  
Old 11-03-2005, 09:32 AM
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Warlock, it is easy to duplicate Garretts loadings, it is within the realm of the 45-70----I was sucked intio the marketing process with very little knowledge at the time. Anymore I would opt for a trigger job, change the extractor and the sights to WWG and nothing more. If you have money to throw away I am sure you will enjoy the rifle in your hands as much as I do.
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  #5  
Old 11-05-2005, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grizz106
Don't get me wrong, their craftsmenship is very good and they are very high priced and the sales guys attitude literally sucks. The smith is cordial and will work with you but the other fella ....not much good to say ----hope he sees the Light. I was anxious about their efforts and jumped and boy did I jump----neverrrrrr again
grizz106,
Ha!!! I really got a chuckle out of your post. Obviously you've dealt with the sales guy a time or two also. Heck, I always figured it was just me!
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  #6  
Old 11-12-2005, 08:35 PM
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All you have to do is modify the Marlin 1895 45-70 to cycle and chamber up to 2.7" rounds and you can get the same performance as the WWG 457 Magnum.
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  #7  
Old 11-16-2005, 02:21 PM
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Is this a full lenght 45-90 case,[2.4"] or has it been shortened some?
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  #8  
Old 11-17-2005, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreBS
Is this a full lenght 45-90 case,[2.4"] or has it been shortened some?
457 WWG Magnum cases are between 2.205" and 2.210".
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  #9  
Old 12-08-2005, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warlock
Here's an interesting calibre for you 45 lovers out there. Any info on this caliber?

Talk about a nice gun...even an option in .50 Alaskan!



Anyone know anything about these guys?
Jim West isn't a bad guy, he just believes his own hype. Remember, he is trying to pay for his new shop now so don't come down on him too hard. His smiths have done good work for us so far and for little jobs that aren't his custom stuff the prices aren't bad. You have to remember, these are his precious babies here and he's a proud papa.

I wouldn't buy one of his .457 though as the 45-70 can easily be loaded to his custom round's ballistics. I mean really... A 350 grain bullet at 2200fps out of a 45-70? Not tough to duplicate.
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  #10  
Old 12-08-2005, 01:40 PM
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wouldn't it be more feasible to just shorten the 458 win mag case to just under the 45/90 but still be longer than the 45/70 and then call it the 457 magnum? or shorten the 460 weatherby cases to magnumize the old 45/70?
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  #11  
Old 12-08-2005, 03:37 PM
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.457 case is a 45-70 case stretched .100

Mr. Pepper the 458X2 was a wildcat forerunner to the .450 mag it is my understanding the .450 has a smaller capacity than the 45-70 but loaded to a much higher pressure, so when hand loading the 45-70 can do more with more powder in lawyer proofed fire arms such as the 1895 and a few such as the ruger #1 and browning 1885, and a few others.
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  #12  
Old 12-08-2005, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swany
.457 case is a 45-70 case stretched .100

Mr. Pepper the 458X2 was a wildcat forerunner to the .450 mag it is my understanding the .450 has a smaller capacity than the 45-70 but loaded to a much higher pressure, so when hand loading the 45-70 can do more with more powder in lawyer proofed fire arms such as the 1895 and a few such as the ruger #1 and browning 1885, and a few others.
The 450 Marlin is not loaded to "a much higher pressure." The safe operating pressure of the Marlin 1895 45-70 is 40,000 CUP. The 450 Marlin can operate at 43,500 PSI in a Marlin lever gun. 40,000 CUP is about 42,700 PSI. If you calculate bolt thrust from those PSI figures for each they are nearly identical.
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  #13  
Old 12-09-2005, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackfish
The 450 Marlin is not loaded to "a much higher pressure." The safe operating pressure of the Marlin 1895 45-70 is 40,000 CUP. The 450 Marlin can operate at 43,500 PSI in a Marlin lever gun. 40,000 CUP is about 42,700 PSI. If you calculate bolt thrust from those PSI figures for each they are nearly identical.
The 450 is loaded from the factory at a much higher pressure, then the 45-70, Marlin gives its blessings to factory 450 loadings but will not stand behind any ammo for the 45-70 above 28Kcup. So swany was right, thats why we have a 450, and anyone who is in the market for a .458 lever gun should look real hard at the 450 if they want to push them big bullets after all "It was designed to handle that pressure" from the get go, and we know they are ballistic equals even if the 45-70 holds a little more powder.

It just amazes me that Marlin gave the .458 shooters a great platform in a lever gun with the 450 and nobody
really likes it, its made to handle heavy loads and its easier to load shells through the gate....................marko
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  #14  
Old 12-09-2005, 08:58 AM
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It just amazes me that Marlin gave the .458 shooters a great platform in a lever gun with the 450 and nobody
really likes it, its made to handle heavy loads and its easier to load shells through the gate....................marko[/QUOTE]







I have two Marlin 1895's,one in .45-70 and the other is .450 Marlin.Between these two rifles I have the .45-70 is MUCH easier to load than the .450M by far!

I do like the .450M cartridge with one HUDGE ecception...that fat belt!!!It stinks to high heaven!I have only found Hornady brass and loaded ammoe-very hard to find at times-making hand loading what I had thought to be a ligitmizing of a terrific little wildcat round!

I was also sucked in with marketing hype...I thought that I could make rounds a plenty by simply cutting down belted mag cases but NOOOO!!They had to make their owen 'unigue' case because some one MIGHT load it in an incorrectly chambered rifle!Just like using any other type of power tool or driving a vehicle...PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT YOU ARE DOING!!

My sollution...have the rifle smithed back to how it should have been in the first place,back to the original wildcat cartridge!
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  #15  
Old 12-09-2005, 09:41 AM
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This thread seems to have drifted away from Warlock's original posting of the .457 WW Mag.

The endless debate of the 45-70 vs. .450 Marlin has been hashed many times on previous threads.
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