» Advanced

Go Back   Shooters Forum > Rifle and Rifle Cartridges > Wildcat Cartridges
Register FAQ Members List Donate Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-05-2001, 08:26 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 5

Registered Users do not see the above ad.


A team of South African's and an American have just launched the answer to the pressure and powder problem of the .458 Win. Mag., the .458 Express 3".  The problem was how does one launch a 500gr bullet at velocities of over 2000 fps, without crunching the load and hence pushing up the pressures.  

The .458 Express 3" more commonly known as the .458 Express uses a 3" case and normal .458 bullets.  The cartiridge was designed specifically for the Brno ZKK 602 action and both standard .458 Win. Mag. and .458 Lott ammunition can be used in the .458 Express.  Naturally the chamber is reamed out and what is great with this is that there is no need to remove the barrel as the reamer has a dummy belt.  

The overall result is that one can now launch a 500gr bullet behind 80gr to 84gr at velocities of 2230 to 2299 fps and this using normal and  duplex loads at pressures of 49,000 Psi, compared to the .458 Win. Mag and Lott at 65,000 Psi and 67,000 Psi repsectively.  Some have asked about the recoil, well the answer is what recoil?  The low and more than acceptable pressures are the result that recoil is 25% less than the .458 Lott.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-08-2001, 05:14 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Mountains of West Virginia
Posts: 627
Donald,

What are you using as a parent cartridge case??  What rifle are you putting the .458 Express into??

Details Man!!

El Lobo in NM
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-08-2001, 06:56 PM
Big Bore's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Southern Indiana
Posts: 1,844
Reinventing the wheel again I see.  Have we forgotten the old 450 Nitro express 3.25", which is essentially the same as the 45 3.25 Sharps in a stronger action and loaded to the hilt, and a host of other British 450/500s if loaded hotter than listed for the older double rifles?  While published loads are for doubles are a bit mild, in modern single shots like the No. 1 they will do exactly what they want.  Also, the 460 Weatherby does not have to be loaded to max all the time.  Down load it a bit and it too duplicates what they want to do.  The 450 Rigby, essentially the same as the 460 Weatherby, but not loaded near as hot gives 500 gr. loads  at 2200 to 2400 fps.

I point this out not to rain on their parade, but simply for fun, that there is really nothing much new to invent, only to duplicate what has passed before in a newer package.

Of course, this "new" round does have an advantage of using less powder, which means less recoil, and in a pinch would allow the shooting of 458 Lott and 458 Win ammo in it, but at much reduced performance levels.  And the rimmed cases just don't feed too well in a repeater, usually.  Plus the conversion would be relatively easy.  I do wonder about feeding problems as the geometry of the feed angle would be changed from the 3" 458 Express down to the 2.5 inch 458 Win.

This round could be an interesting cartridge to play with.  I was thinking about building a Lott in the not too distant future, but maybe this would be something a bit more interesting to fool with.  
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-12-2001, 12:51 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 5
El Lobo & Big Bore.  Hi!  To answer a few of your questions, the parent cartridge is raw unturned brass that is turned here in South Africa for us, by OPM Ammunition, who also make ammo and I mean everything is class A, they will even personalise your cases with your name and calibre on the head stamp.  I can find out if there is any way of getting the 3 inch case from parent brass.  The rifle I am using is an original Brno 458 Win Mag with ZKK 602, first converted to a Lott and now to the Express 3".  To date, I know of a few guys in SA that have had their Krieghoff's converted and the man behind everything has had his Ruger No1 converted.  If you both want I can e-mail all the articles on the Express?  Contact me at [email protected]  As for the 450 Nitro, this is also an option, however few guides in South Africa have the money to buy one let alone have one made.  Then there is the problem of acquiring cases and reloading dies and trust me if the calibre is obscure one will battle here.  It has taken me almost a year to get cases and bullets for my 454 Casull.  Right now no one in SA has RCBS dies and Trim die in 458.  So answer a question the Express is easier to reload for as it uses all the normal 458 components and one can buy ammo from OPM @ R24 (&#363-00) a round.  Let me know if you want those articles.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-01-2004, 04:57 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: West of Chicago, Ill. and Ozark Mountains
Posts: 2,895
Donald RSA........I tried to contact you by sending you an E-mail to that address you put up in your post. However it never seems to go through as there is a problem with the address.

You want to put up the correct address or ????

2BITS
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-02-2004, 08:06 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1
Penatration

Gentleman, I am new to this forum and to big bore shooting,perhaps you can help me with a question. In reading an article on another forum the authour states "that deeper penitration with solid bullets is always better with slower moving bullets,ie 1600fps".In light of this, why punish ourselves with high velocities.Here is the link:
http://www.marlinowners.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=119
Thanks Frank
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-02-2004, 08:59 PM
MikeG's Avatar
The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 27,468
I can say I've seen tests in print that show this, but can't tell you why.

Just a guess, tissue has to 'give' at some point to let the bullet go through. The higher-velocity rounds may compress additional tissue ahead of them that increases the resistance ?????

Anyway, when you see that a .45-70 out-penetrates a .458 Win Mag, with a slower bullet, it makes you scratch your head.
__________________
MikeG

Quote:
Originally Posted by faucettb
Welcome to the forum. Rules are simple, be nice and join in.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-04-2004, 07:55 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: West of Chicago, Ill. and Ozark Mountains
Posts: 2,895
BIG BORE..........I agree with your sentiments towards this NEW FOUND miracle in the .458 Winchester magnum!

I remember when Jack Lott decided to do something about his Cape Buffalo incident many years ago. His answer for the problems of the .458 Win mag was to make the case a little longer.

In the hunting world of big bores, it seemed to be a new found answer to the weak showing on the Chrony by the old .458 mag loads. I guess folks never bothered to look back a few pages in history of that caliber, as it had already been done many years before in the form of the wildcat cartridge the 450-WATTS.
Which by the way develops more velocity and kenetic energy than the "new found hope" for a wheel, the .458-Lott.
I rest my case!!!

Last edited by 2Bits; 09-04-2004 at 08:01 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Winchester 50 Express ? SubDoc Rifles and Rifle Cartridges 15 11-11-2005 01:10 PM
.750 Nitro Express Dave Saye Rifles and Rifle Cartridges 13 09-05-2004 05:37 AM
3" 629 paddle holster?? halfbreed Handguns 0 07-13-2003 11:30 PM
M 60 J frame w/ 3" barrel. 357 Mattkc Handgun Cartridges 8 04-10-2003 06:13 PM
500 nitro express TJ Wildcat Cartridges 2 06-21-2002 07:28 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:33 PM.

< Contact Us - Shooters Forum - Archive >

 
 

All Content & Design Copyright © 1999-2002 Beartooth Bullets, All Rights Reserved
View Privacy Policy | Contact Webmaster | Legal Information
Website Design & Development By Exbabylon Internet Solutions
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2