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  #1  
Old 02-19-2007, 06:48 AM
Vic Vic is offline
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25 caliber.....25-08 ?


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I'm looking for a good/great 25 caliber dual purpose rifle. I like the 26 caliber, however - the smallest available bullets are really too big for medium sized varmints, so 25 caliber gets the nod.

The 257 Roberts interests me, however, the only current manufactured rifles are the wood stocked M77 Mk II and while I've owned Rugers in the past and liked them, I'm not sure the MkII is what I want.

Anyway - has anyone built a 25 caliber on the 308 case ?

Regards, Vic
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  #2  
Old 02-19-2007, 09:23 AM
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That cat has been around for many years. Do a search under the name of .25 Souper.
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  #3  
Old 02-19-2007, 11:39 AM
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Vic, Had one put together on an Rem 722 action 1/14 twist to shoot light bullets, get a 1/10-1/12 twist if you want to use heavy bullets. It is a great round and powder efficent. But you will spend some money having your rifle rebarreled and buying dies.
I use .308 cases and neck them down or you can use .243 and neck up. may have to do some neck turning or trimming after sizing.

As Blackhawk44 pointed out do a search for .25Souper or 25/08 we discussed it here not long ago.

Here is a good link and rocky is a member here and this is on of his favorite wildcats

http://www.reloadingroom.com/page10.html

arky65
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  #4  
Old 02-19-2007, 01:06 PM
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Lightbulb

Wow ! I checked out the article by Rocky.....actually - I'll be reading it and re-reading it for the rest of the afternoon/evening ! I didn't think that what I was inquiring about was "new", but I sure didn't think it had this much history. I do have P.O. Ackley's books, Vol I & II and have read a little about wildcat cartridges.....guess I just never considered myself "one of them".

Thanks for the info and lesson on the 25-08. Now I need to think about what rifle I'd like to have for rebarreling - I reckon.

Regards, Vic
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  #6  
Old 02-20-2007, 09:02 PM
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Another cartridge to consider is the .257 DGR which is based on a .260 Rem necked to .257 and the shoulder bumped back to slightly lengthen the neck. The designer is Duane Spooner in ND. He can be reached at "www.duanesguns.com". Duane has dies by Hornady for sale and also has some loading data available.
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  #7  
Old 02-21-2007, 04:00 AM
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Have you considered the 25 WSSM? 25-06 ballistics from a super-short action, and you could always download it to 257 Roberts or Souper velocities. The cost of building a wildcat is significant compared a production rifle.

I am considering a 25 WSSM upper for my AR-15. The only thing keeping me from it is that I am waiting for the 6.5/264 WSSM to hit the market. I might be waiting for a very long time because it doesn't look like it is going to happen any time soon, or even ever.

I could always neck-up the 25 WSSM to 6.5mm and have an upper chambered for it, but the cost does not justify it, to me anyway.

Back to your .257, Browning chambers the A-bolt in 25 WSSM in the Hunter, Medallion and Micro Hunter. That Micro is a short, slick, svette little bolt gun.
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  #8  
Old 02-21-2007, 07:15 AM
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Nitro, if the WSSM round lasts another ten years, I'd agree with you. But I don't think they are wildly popular now - and with Winchester gone, they may never get popular. So I think I'd hesitate before buying a rifle that can't be chambered for anything else and that uses cases that can't be made from anything else. (WSSM guns have a unique action length, unique magazine configuration and unique boltface size, I believe.)

But standard short-action rifles with .473" head diameter boltfaces -- as well as numerous sources of brass -- will be around forever. For those reasons, I'd recommend a more standard quarter bore, be that a .250 Savage, a Roberts, a .25-06 or even a .25-308.
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  #9  
Old 02-22-2007, 01:46 PM
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Your Possible Wildcat expedition

I am thinking about building a rifle also and will probably get the Howa 1500 action. Good and reasonably priced compared to others.
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  #10  
Old 02-24-2007, 04:57 AM
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The.25 WSSM uses a .535" cartridge rim while nominal belted magnum cartridges run .532", not a significant difference. Browning offers their bolt gun in the WSSM series cartridges. Ammo shouldn't be a problem for the handloader, just purchase a couple thousand cases at the outset, (you should see my stock of .348 Winchester cases for the same reason). I do believe Cooper Firearms introduced the Model 16 in the entire WSSM series last year. This cartridge should be around for awhile. Cases can be formed from any of the Winchester Short Magnum series of brass, or even the Remington SAUM in a pinch. This is a good cartridge that should have it's chance to stand on its own merits, rather than allow rumors of it's demise kill it off, as happened with the .244/6mm Remington.
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  #11  
Old 11-12-2009, 02:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky Raab View Post
Nitro, if the WSSM round lasts another ten years, I'd agree with you. But I don't think they are wildly popular now - and with Winchester gone, they may never get popular. So I think I'd hesitate before buying a rifle that can't be chambered for anything else and that uses cases that can't be made from anything else. (WSSM guns have a unique action length, unique magazine configuration and unique boltface size, I believe.)

But standard short-action rifles with .473" head diameter boltfaces -- as well as numerous sources of brass -- will be around forever. For those reasons, I'd recommend a more standard quarter bore, be that a .250 Savage, a Roberts, a .25-06 or even a .25-308.

Im bringing this up for two reasons. One, to find info on the .25-308, and two to prove that Rocky was right, and the WSSM's are pretty dead.
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  #12  
Old 11-12-2009, 04:31 AM
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And a link to an article (dunno if it's the same as the one linked above was... the link above is broken for me). http://www.reloadingroom.com/index_files/25-308.htm
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  #13  
Old 11-12-2009, 05:56 AM
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Thanks, shane. Yes, I had to rename the pages.

One other observation about the 25 WSSM: the brass on all the WSM and WSSM rounds is VERY thick, to hold the high pressures. (65,000 psi). That means they do NOT respond well to reduced loads, because those cases simply don't expand to seal the chamber with lower pressures. So you pretty much have to run them at full throttle all the time. That's the main reason I declined buying one.

And it is true that the boltface is only marginally different from magnum rounds - but the action is so short you couldn't get anything else to fit them but the WSSM. It's a non-convertible rifle, pure and simple.
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  #14  
Old 11-12-2009, 03:18 PM
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I have a few .25WSSM's along with some 26-06's and yes the WSSM's don't like light charges and even though they don't do anything the 25-06 can't do I really like the round.
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  #15  
Old 11-12-2009, 08:08 PM
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If you are going to the trouble to barrel for the .25-308 (which should be a fine cartridge as it will closely resemble the .257 Roberts), why not go for a .257 Roberts barrel? Not that I don't have wildcats, but in this case it might be simpler.
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  #16  
Old 11-13-2009, 01:57 PM
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If you want a fast mover in 257, get a 257 weatherby mag. lots of bullets and lots of brass. You would really have to build something exotic to match its preformance in a quarter bore.
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  #17  
Old 11-19-2009, 07:36 AM
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My question is this. Why the short magnums? The only way the .25 WSSM can get near the 25-06 is severe overloading. Put them to the same PSI abd the OLD 25-06 kicks major ***. That goes for all WSM and WSSM shells. Just a frigging gimmick and easily proven. In my case, the .25WSSM is a .257 Rob. I will pound it with the 25-06.
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  #18  
Old 11-19-2009, 09:10 AM
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I once had a 25/06 in a savage rifle. I forget the model, probably a 112 ss. Anyhow it was probably the most accurate rifle out of the box I ever ownd. It was a good rile but my 257 weatherby beat it across the croney by 250 fps or better. with a little tweeking my Mk.5 257 shoots between 1/2 and3/4 moa my 257 vanguard will do almost as good. I personally wouldn't invest in a short magnum. I don't need them, have plenty of the long ones
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  #19  
Old 11-19-2009, 11:33 AM
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One might make the argument that if you held the .25-06 to the same pressures as the 250 Savage, it wouldn't be very impressive, either. The point is that the WSM and WSSM rounds have very thick cases specifically designed to be safe at 65,000 psi.

The point is not that any quarter-bore is "better" than another, but that each has its particular usage niche. If mostest fastest is the only criteria, then they'd only make one round in each caliber, and it would have the biggest case possible. They don't. They make lots of different rounds in each bore diameter. All of them are good or even best at something - but not the same something.
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  #20  
Old 11-19-2009, 03:47 PM
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JSR76 where are you getting your information from? The 25WSSM and 25-06 are just about identical in performance. The 25-06 used to have a a slight edge with heavier bullets but powders like Reloader 17 take that edge away and once again they are identical in performance. I have a few rifles in both calibers and can attest they are both equally great performers.
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