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  #1  
Old 01-19-2003, 06:01 PM
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Cool 33 Winchester Improved?


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Greetings everyone,
Is there such a thing as 33WCF improved? I figure it would be very similar to the 348 improved. From what I have read the standard 33/200gr load has about the same numbers as the 348/200gr load.

Does an improved ctg offer less "wear" on a gun?

Also, what kind of numbers might the imp offer over the std?

FYI, it is in an 86 winchester.

Thanks Much
Juan Tedman
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  #2  
Old 01-19-2003, 07:12 PM
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Just checked P.O. Ackley's books on wildcat cartridges and couldn't find anything on a .33 Win Imp. There was a .348 Win Imp listed.

I would question putting an improved cartridge in the 1886 Winchester - don't know if the action would handle it for long.

The Winchester Model 71 was/is a much stronger action which can handle the improved version of the .348 cartridge.
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  #3  
Old 01-19-2003, 09:56 PM
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33 Win. Improved

The 33 Winchester is the 45-70 case necked to .33 cal. as I recall. I have not seen an improved version of this cartridge either but that doesn't mean it can't be done. If you use the same principles as Ackley did and apply them to the .33 it should work fine. Ackley always claimed and seemed to demonstrate that the improved cartridges reduced bolt thrust. This would make it easier on the gun and the brass. As far as the 1886 being weak this is not true. The 1886 in .33 Win was made for 40,000 PSI or so. Thats why Winchester introduced the nickel steel barrels on the 1886.

You could make a drawing and send it to Clymer with your improved case design and they would make you a reamer. After fireforming some cases you would send them to RCBS and they could make you some dies. Seems like it might be easier to just rebarrel for the 348 Ackely or one of the many other wildcats on that case( IE. 35/348 375/348, etc.). Dies and reamers are already available.

I have a 348 Ackley Improved in a Browning 71 and like it very much.

Garth
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  #4  
Old 01-20-2003, 06:53 AM
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Thumbs up

Garth, you are absolutely correct. When the 1886 was discontinued in 1935, production of the 71 began, using parts on hand. There is no difference in the steel of a late production '86 and the 71. When the 348WCF was introduced many 1886s were sent back to Winchester to be converted to the new cartridge. The nickle steel guns are very strong, indeed. My 1915 45-70 has had some of Garrett's +P Hammerheads run through it without a hitch. The 33 and 45-90 are capable of strong loads, too. The 33 is a fine cartridge that, in my book, needs no improvement.
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  #5  
Old 01-20-2003, 01:56 PM
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The closest you may be able to come to improved 33,is the 338VVD. It is supposed to be a 45-70 necked down to 338 but with some improvements.
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  #6  
Old 01-22-2003, 12:14 PM
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Talking Thanks

Thank you for the info guys,
I am not really looking to up the numbers on the 33, my original intent was just to lessen the "strain" on the gun. From what I have read, most say the 348s biggest fault, or only fault, is the dramatic case taper, leading to increased rear or bolt thrust. The 33, seems to have a virtually identical taper profile, so I thought the same might be true for it as well. Incrasing the velocity would just be an additional bonus.

I found only one load in load swap, and none on the powder company sites (IMR, HODGDON, and ALLIANT). Anyone have a load the would suggest?

As always
Thanks much!!!
JuanTedman
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  #7  
Old 02-15-2003, 05:24 AM
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Ackley claimed reduced bolt thrust with his AI cartridges. He proved it by firing a 30-30 Improved in a Win 94 rifle without the locking block!
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  #8  
Old 02-15-2003, 05:25 AM
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About the above, dont try this at home.
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  #9  
Old 02-21-2003, 05:54 AM
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Question .33 Improved

J T ..... I am interested in the improved version as well. I think the decreased bolt thrust would be a good feature. I have a question for you about your current loads. Have you used the wln LBT style in 240 grains with Gas Check? What other loads might you share with us? Thanks in advance... Bandito
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  #10  
Old 03-03-2003, 05:10 PM
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check this site for .33 data

Check out the following; www.loaddata.com You may have to join, like I did. Wolfe plans on entering all load data from Rifle and Handloader magazine. Should be lots of data available soon. There are lots of loads for the 200 gr jacketed and a 230 gr cast. They may have something on a .348 Imp. Good luck 'dito
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  #11  
Old 03-03-2003, 05:34 PM
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.348 AI

Here you go J T. 348 Improved (Ackley) Caliber

Warning! All loads should be approached with caution due to rifles

Bullet Powder Manufacturer Powder Charge Velocity(FPS) Remarks
220 Barnes IMR IMR-4350 63.0 2,284
220 Barnes IMR IMR-4350 65.0 2,452
250 Barnes IMR IMR-4350 62.0 2,332
250 Barnes IMR IMR-4350 65.0 2,403
250 Barnes IMR IMR-4350 66.0 2,420
250 Barnes IMR IMR-4895 55.0 2,247
250 Barnes IMR IMR-4895 58.0 2,382
250 Barnes IMR IMR-4895 60.0 2,413
250 Barnes Hodgdon H-4831 66.0 2,352
250 Barnes Hodgdon H-4831 70.0 2,362
250 Barnes Accurate XMR-3100 66.0 2,353
250 Barnes Accurate XMR-3100 69.0 2,376
250 Barnes Accurate XMR-3100 70.0 2,412
250 Barnes IMR IMR-4064 52.0 2,206
250 Barnes IMR IMR-4064 54.0 2,367
250 Barnes IMR IMR-4064 57.0 2,407
250 LBT IMR IMR-3031 50.0 2,253
250 LBT IMR IMR-3031 52.0 2,289
250 LBT IMR IMR-4350 63.0 2,300
250 LBT IMR IMR-4350 64.0 2,321
250 LBT IMR IMR-4895 58.0 2,376
250 LBT IMR IMR-4895 59.0 2,416
250 LBT Accurate XMR-3100 68.0 2,289
250 LBT Accurate XMR-3100 69.0 2,296
250 LBT Accurate XMR-3100 70.0 2,310
250 LBT IMR IMR-4064 52.0 2,184
250 LBT IMR IMR-4064 53.0 2,245
300 Hoch IMR IMR-4350 63.0 2,266
300 Hoch IMR IMR-4350 64.0 2,305
300 Hoch Accurate XMR-3100 66.0 2,174
300 Hoch Accurate XMR-3100 68.0 2,247
Loading with these data is done at your own risk! You are on your own. 'dito
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  #12  
Old 05-30-2003, 08:04 PM
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Wink Re: 33 Winchester Improved?

Quote:
Originally posted by Juan Tedman
Greetings everyone,
Is there such a thing as 33WCF improved? I figure it would be very similar to the 348 improved. From what I have read the standard 33/200gr load has about the same numbers as the 348/200gr load.

Does an improved ctg offer less "wear" on a gun?

Also, what kind of numbers might the imp offer over the std?

FYI, it is in an 86 winchester.

Thanks Much
Juan Tedman
The 348win and the 33Win have very little in common.Plus the 348Win is a far superior round to the 33Win.

33Win 200gr 2200fps-2150fpe,Factory or handload
348Win 200gr 2520fps-2820fpe,Factory
348Win 200gr 2560fps-2909fps,Conley
348Win 220gr 2470fps-2979fpe,Conley

The 33Win is a fine round,but it ain't in the same league as the 348Win.
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