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  #1  
Old 07-17-2008, 11:41 PM
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Imperial and Canadian Magnums


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Does anybody have any information, drawings or articles about the Imperial or Canadian Magnums. I want to build one.
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  #2  
Old 07-18-2008, 06:41 AM
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Welcome to the forum olcrip. Rules are simple, be nice and join in. Here's something I picked up from a Google search.

COTW (p226) says under the 7mm Canadian Magnum that it is similar to the 7mm Imperial Magnum. These are the listed specs (p498 ) for the Canadian:
Bullet Diam: .284,
Neck Diam: .322,
Shoulder Diam: .530,
Base Diam: .544,
Rim Diam: .532,
Rim Thick: .046,
Case Lgth: 2.83,
Ctg Lgth: 3.60.

Those numbers look similar enough to me for safe experimenting with 7CM's listed loads. Take careful note, however, that these are all listed as maximum loads for the 7CM. I would be reducing all loads by 25-35% and working up slowly from there. Watch the primers for pressure signs - if this one blows it will probably leave a crater!

140gr bullets:
H4831 82.0gr 3426fps 3645ME
RL 22 85.0gr 3523fps 3855ME
IMR 7828 86.5gr 3480fps 3760ME

160gr bullets:
RL 22 82.0gr 3264fps 3780ME
IMR 7828 83.5gr 3257fps 3765ME
H 1000 87.0gr 3288fps 3835ME

175gr bullets:
IMR 7828 79.0gr 3018fps 3540ME
H 1000 83.0gr 3098fps 3725ME
H 870 93.0gr 3109fps 3750ME

And a factory load is listed as 140gr bullet 3525fps 3860ME
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  #3  
Old 07-18-2008, 07:19 AM
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The Imperial Magnums were made in 7mm, .300, .311, .338 and .360. The .311 was .303 British diameter and Speer made a 200 grain Grand Slam for a short time. The .360 used .358" bullets. The Remington Ultra Magnums are a shameless knock-off of the Imperial Magnums and there's hardly any difference in performance. I've got all of them in my cartridge collection and I can measure the cases if you want. Later, the name were changed to Canadian Magnum and a .375 added. There's reloading data for the 7mm, .300, .338 and .375 Canadian Magnums in Cartridges of the World, 9th Edition.

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Jack

Last edited by Jack Monteith; 07-18-2008 at 07:35 AM.
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  #4  
Old 07-18-2008, 07:57 AM
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Hey Jack,
I am not familiar with these guys... Care to give a little history lesson?

Jim
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  #5  
Old 07-18-2008, 08:24 AM
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That will strain my memory. I'll see what I can dig up and get back later.

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  #6  
Old 07-18-2008, 08:46 PM
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I'm mostly going from memory here, so don't expect 100% accuracy and 100% of the story. Imperial was the ammunition trademark name of Canadian Industries Limited and later IVI (Industries Valcartier Inc.). IVI was getting out of the civilian ammo business about 1990 and Imperial Magnum purchased the rights to the name. The rifles and cartridges were introduced in 1991. The rifles were built on Sako actions and may have been completely built by Sako. Ammunition was the problem as the parent .404 Jeffery case wasn't readily available then. Imperial Magnum contracted with a Brazilian company for brass. The brass was a year late and of poor quality. This put Imperial Magnum out of business, and a company called North American Shooting Systems took over and renamed the cartridges Canadian Magnums. Apparently they're still in business.
http://www.canpages.ca/page/BC/osoyo...s/1831195.html

The shoulder of the .311 Imperial Magnum (IM) is set back a bit, compared to the .300 RUM. The shoulder of the .300 IM is set back a bit more, to prevent chambering a .311 IM in a .300 IM.

Height to shoulder:
.300 IM - 2.300"
.300 RUM - 2.382"
.311 IM - 2.340"

Cartridges of the World #9 gives the height to shoulder of the .300 RUM as 2.3476". Ammoguide gives 2.382" which agrees with my caliper. This is a difficult measurement, so Lyman #48's 2.3873" could be correct. Someday I'll have to get the IM cartridges into Ammoguide. The .300 RUM was introduced in 1998.
http://ammoguide.com/?catid=85

A local gunsmith made a ".360 IM" some years before Imperial Magnum did. He told me that mule deer at 350 yards were Dead Right There.

Bye
Jack
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  #7  
Old 07-18-2008, 09:10 PM
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OK, so this makes them a commercially available cartridge and not a wildcat. Frankly, I've never heard of the Imperial or Canadian magnums - guess I'll need to ckeck out my COTW.
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  #8  
Old 07-18-2008, 09:55 PM
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I have the 11th. edition of COTW. It does not have the Imperial Magnums listed, but does have Canadian Magnums listed in chapter 5 which is on Proprietory Cartridges. Unfortunately, COTW #11 does not give any dimentions. (Which COTW did you get your info from Bob?) The 7mm CM is on page 245, the 300 CM is on page 250, 338 CM on page 255, 375 CM on 262. For the most part in the General Comments section, it says, "These are similar to the Dakota Cartridge family in design and purpose. They take advatage of the full 3.65" mag. lengthof the Rem. 700 and similar rifles. Body diameter is .544". Rechambering of nominal belted magnums with the same bore diameter is generally simple requiring no other rifle alterations. Case capacity is about 15% greater than belted magnum versions. Body taper is minimal and shoulder is comparatively sharp (sorry, no measurements given). Neck length is generous to provide bullet purchase for hunting ammo. Performance is commensurate with the generous case capacity and pressures used in the loadings given. We must note that one should expect this chambering to be rather hard on barrels." Cartridges of the World, 11th. ed. 2006

For the 375 CM, COTW #11 says it is very close to the 378 Weatherby Magnum, 300 and 338 CM is similar to the 300 and 338 RUM (Remington Ultra Magnum) respectively.
Hope this helps a little

Last edited by Kansas; 07-18-2008 at 09:56 PM. Reason: Edit to add that COTW #11 does have load data I can give you if you tell me which caliber and bullet you plan to use.
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  #9  
Old 07-18-2008, 09:59 PM
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Added picture

M.L. McPherson put the 7mm, .300, .338 and .375 Canadian Magnums in Chapter 5, Proprietary Cartridges, in the 9th Edition of Cartridges of the World. I'm somewhat puzzled with his choice of classification of some cartridges in that book, particularly between wildcats and proprietary.

At any rate, the Imperial Magnums in my collection are properly headstamped and not reworked .404 Jeffery brass.

Bye
Jack
Attached Thumbnails
Imperial and Canadian Magnums-311im.jpg  

Last edited by Jack Monteith; 07-18-2008 at 10:16 PM.
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  #10  
Old 07-19-2008, 09:19 AM
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Smile N.A.S.S. Imperial Mags

I sure appreciate all the input from everybody on the Imperials. I purchased a 338 Imperial Magnum reamer and a 375 Canadian Magnum reamer. I hope to use them soon. It would be nice to get brass with the right headstamp for use in Africa. Does anybody know of availability for reload dies, or can the RUM dies be workable?

Jack, I went to the link that you posted for North American Shooting Systems. No web page is available. Am I doing something wrong or is their web page defunked?

It's hard to get much back ground on these cartridges. I have read some articles about the imperials many years ago. If anybody has access to any of those articles it sure would warm my heart.

I also read somewhere recently about reaming with the 375 reamer using a 458 bushing in a 458 barrel, then following up with a 458 neck reamer to make a 458 Imperial. Has anyone heard of this process before or used it? I have a Montana Rifle man barrel that wants it's throat cut.
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Last edited by olcrip; 07-19-2008 at 09:29 AM. Reason: add text, correct typo
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  #11  
Old 07-19-2008, 12:24 PM
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I have the 8th, 9th and 10th publications of COTW and find only generalized info on the Canadian Magnums. Some loading data, but no dimensioned drawings.

C-H in California (www.ch4d.com) can provide dies and drawn brass for .404 Jeffery or Dakota brass, which appear usable for your project if you can't find the proper headstamp. Taking dissimilar headstamps not matching rifle chamberings to Africa would probably pose a major problem.

Personally, I own a customized 7mm Dakota and find it a powerhouse for a 7mm. Might want to consider putting the reamer back on the shelf and perhaps chambering for the Dakota. Then, matching headstamp is no longer a problem and the Canadian and Dakota cartridges appear matching in capabilities and profile.
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Last edited by kdub; 07-19-2008 at 12:36 PM.
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  #12  
Old 07-19-2008, 01:09 PM
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I'm getting a break between thunderstorms this afternoon. The weak point of high speed wireless long range internet is the roof-top antenna.

There's just a phone number at the North American Shooting Systems link, (250) 495-3131. It's a business directory, not a website for North American.

CH-4D lists the Imperial Magnum dies, and is your best source for custom dies now. RCBS did not list Imperial dies in their 1997 custom die catalog. I have a set of CH-4D dies in .222 Remington and they are good ones.

While I have no doubt that the .330 Dakota will get the job done, it's a smaller case than the .338 Imperial. The .338 RUM is close to the .338 Imperial in size.

Height to Shoulder:
.330 Dakota - 2.072" - caliper
.338 RUM - 2.2958" - Lyman #48
.338 IM - 2.345 - caliper

I wonder if there's a difference between the Imperial and Canadian cartridges. It may just be something about rights to the Imperial trademark.

Bye
Jack

Last edited by Jack Monteith; 07-19-2008 at 01:16 PM.
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  #13  
Old 07-19-2008, 01:20 PM
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Imperial Mags

I have this itch that desperately needs to be scratched. With reamers in hand the scratchin mitt is already donned just need to start the motion. I also want to build a "338 Edge" long range touch em to get their attention.

I thought I was out of the Magnum craze phase of my shooting career. After so many years of hating the guys that touted and pouted the 270 and the 30-06, I gave in and started shooting just the cartridge I hated so much (mainly because of the dudes bragging their virtues). I shoot many smaller cartridges now but the big stuff still make me sneeze with delite. It's just like drag racing, I stay away from the track because after quitting for over thirty years it's still in my blood and heart. So the magnums will be a part of my life til I assume room temperature. I will build the Imperials and the Can Mags. If I have to I will find some head stamped brass for the Dark Continent![/SIZE]


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Last edited by olcrip; 07-19-2008 at 01:22 PM. Reason: typos
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  #14  
Old 07-19-2008, 11:44 PM
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I've been shooting the 8mm Rem mag since 1978. Use a 220 grain Sierra boattail at 3080 fps. Sure has worked well on deer and elk here in Idaho and everything in Alaska. My first non magnum deer rifle ended up in the safe a few years ago, It's a Rem 700 Mountain rifle chambered in 280 Remington. I've always liked the big boomers, but with the eyesight going can't really take advantage of their potential anymore.
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  #15  
Old 07-20-2008, 05:56 PM
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8 MM Mag.

Bob, I wouldn't discount the eyes for any long range hunting.As long as you don't use open sights your in good shape. With a scope you can focus to take in your short comings with long eyes. If your heart desires, then by God keep pushing the power. It's what's in the heart and what gratifies it that counts. Never say die, pass the magnums

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Last edited by olcrip; 07-20-2008 at 05:59 PM. Reason: typo
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  #16  
Old 09-27-2012, 09:34 AM
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Tried gunbroker.com or I think it's gunsamerica.com? Gotta be a place to sell something so rare. You could send it to the big Scheels in Sparks, Nevada. They have a "Premium Room" wherein really nice guns are put on display for hands-on inspection by people who have the money to take a decision right there and buy it. I think Cabela's has something similar. You could sell the gun with information attached that states you have all the extras. To get them, the buyer contacts you and you go from there...

Phone number for Scheels in Sparks is (775) 331-two-seven-zero-zero.

Found this with a quick search. Not really that much to find about it...

http://www.longrangehunting.com/foru...um-what-82200/
GlensGuns likes this.

Last edited by nvshooter; 09-27-2012 at 09:46 AM.
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  #17  
Old 09-27-2012, 09:50 AM
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Welcome to the forum Glensguns.

Don't be surprised if your post get edited or deleted. Check out the stickys in the Trading Post section. You haven't been a member long enough or have enough posts to offer items for sale.
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  #18  
Old 09-27-2012, 10:37 AM
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The Imperial cartridge line came first, then they changed the name to Canadian Magnums. The .300 Imperial Magnum is the shortest case of the lineup. Cartridge case length is 2.767 - 2.777". Overal loaded length is listed as 3.600" however. The 'Smith the built my rifle still has the Finish reamer. I live in Kansas and there just isn't anything big enough that requires this much Hammer.
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Old 09-27-2012, 10:40 AM
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Thank you for the information. I will check with these people.
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  #20  
Old 09-27-2012, 07:51 PM
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About 15 years ago 2 of my friends got together and decided that they both had to have one. They each have one. We have all moved and the one in ND looked into having his reamed to 300 RUM and supposedly it won't go. The one in TX has wanted to sell his for about 10 years. The same thing that was said about KS can be said for TX...there just isn't anything there that recquires that kind of a magnum...that said, I think that he now shoots a .300 H&H (when he is not shooting a .264 and others). I think that it is built on a pre64 M70, but it may be on a 1917. I think that it is to heavy for him (I think that he is crazy). I toted it off the mountain for him once...he had 6x6 antlers on top of his pack. That shot was at about 400 yards, off-hand. He put 3 shots on the elk in just a few secs. The critter went down in about 5 steps. He has brass and dies. If you are interested send me a PM. I have no idea of what he might want.

As far as I know, it is a handload only type of caliber. But, you can shoot 300 RUM in it, of the other way around, not sure which. It is like shooting a standard cartridge in an Ackley gun. Either way, you can load it w/RUM cases.
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