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  #1  
Old 02-01-2003, 08:32 AM
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358 Wsm


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This is a very obvious wildcat, and I am certain that there are already dies out there...I want one!

My plan is to get a custom 358 WSM bbl for my Savage in 300 WSM and the lock nut tool and swap 'em back and forth. My questions are:

1. I see on the Midway site that A&B offers inexpansive 358 Win bbls for the Savage - is there enough steel there to just ream out to 358 WSM?

2. Are any dies and reamers available off the shelf yet?

3. Any sense in the standard 1 in 12 inch twist rate? I want to be able shoot 310 gr Woodleighs but standard loads will be 225 gr Noslers. For fun there will also be .357 pistol bullets @ 1500fps.

Ant other thoughts or ideas?

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 02-01-2003, 09:13 AM
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Pac-Nor (www.pac-nor.com) lists the 350-300 wsm as an available chambering. Also, you could have a reamer made from Shawnie Tools ( www.reamerrentals.com ) for $147. I would think that you could have a .358 Win barrel rechambered to the WSM with no problem although depending on COAL (which the WSM should be longer) you may have to have the barrel faced back a bit. Any of the die makers would make your dies for you. The best way I think to do this is to get your barrel chambered, then have a chamber cast done and send that with a couple of fired cases to RCBS or whoever you choose and have them make your dies that. Then you know that your dies fit your chamber. Sean
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  #3  
Old 02-01-2003, 11:59 AM
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Thanks, Sean -

COL is 2.8 for 308, 358 and 300 WSM, so no problem there. I will post again asking is anyone wants to share this reamer, just to cut the cost a bit. I think my local smith will pay half if he can keep it, but its a bit exotic and he may not want one. I plan to put a 358 expander ball in my 300 WSM die and form a new case to send as a model for the reamer. The 300 WSM cases are 2.010 vs 2.015 for the 358, and we are moving the 358 shoulder forward about 0.104 going from a 20 to 35 degree shoulder. I may just let the necks grow to make 2.015 if i don't lose too much case length in expanding the neck.

Thanks for your help.
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  #4  
Old 02-02-2003, 01:12 PM
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I'll post the obvious - why not a 350 Rem Mag? I would guess the 300 WSM case holds a bit more powder but I would bet there isn't going to be 75 fps between the two in similar length barrels. Most data for the 350 is given for 18.5 or 20" barrels. If I were to go through all the hassle of re-chambering a 300 WSM to 358, I'd get a 350 Rem Mag and have it throated deeper (~ 0.200) to allow bullets to be seated farther out. Dies are available at any gun show for $20, Midway has cases and data is available. I did just that for an Encore pistol and get remarkable velocities from a 16" barrel. On the other hand, I've never met an interesting wildcat I didn't like. I own a couple of oddball Contender and Encore rounds to prove it. Whatever you decide let us know how you make out and good luck with it.
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  #5  
Old 02-03-2003, 04:26 AM
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Good point. I agree that the 350 Rem Mag is a great round and have always wanted one. The 358 WSM case will hold about 8 more grains, and this translates into 100 fps more with 200 gr Hornadys which is still no big deal. With heavier, longer bullets, it allows one to get the 350's capacity seated out without increasing length.
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  #6  
Old 02-05-2003, 10:47 AM
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Just mocked up the 358 WSM using a 35 expander plug. Holding COL to 2.8 inches, the case holds 76.0 grs of AA2230 to the base of the neck with 200 gr Hornady PSPs, which can be maintained all the way up to 300 gr RN bullets if we let COL go to 3.1 inches, the length of the Savage WSM magazine. Computer says this will give 4350 to 4650 fpe depending on whether the WSM case efficiencies are factored in. Expansion ratio quite close to 308 Win, and 22 inch bbl will wring it all out. All of the ball powders suitable for the 308 will work fine in it. Ball bulk densities run close to 1.0, so its a nice fit powder wise, with lots of choices as we run up the bullet weight scale (AA2230 to W760).

Pretty much a very short 375 H&H or 358 Norma from an external ballistics perspective. A 3.1 inch COL is the way to go in this rifle, with appropriate throat adjustments.

Looks nasty with spitzers and the sharp shoulder, hope it is!
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  #7  
Old 02-05-2003, 07:45 PM
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Whitetail, what kind of velocities are you getting from your Encore barrel? Mine should be here sometime this month from the Custom Shop. It is supposed to be a 20" heavy taper. Hopefully they get it right when I recieved my first confirmation letter from them they had it down as a 26" barrel. Sean
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  #8  
Old 02-06-2003, 11:38 AM
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Loader,

Redding and RCBS already list .358WSM dies and most of the well known reamer companies list the reamer, but be shure that they are all talking about compatable dimensions since more than one variant may be out there. A .358WSM should be a great round.

Fireplug
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  #9  
Old 02-06-2003, 02:58 PM
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Lone Eagle,

I have an Encore pistol (16" brl). I get 2600 fps with 200 gr bullets and 2500 with 225 gr Noslers. I had my barrel throated longer (0.200") to seat larger bullets farther out therefore I add ~ 1 - 1.5 grains more powder than most max loads. I have yet to get ANY pressure signs. My main goal was to be able to use case space for powder not bullet with bigger bullets. It appears to work rather well. I find I only lose 150 fps to most rifle data. If you haven't recieved your barrel yet, have them chamber it deeper than SAAMI. With barrel lengths of 24 or 26 inches & throated deeper, I think it would push 338 Win Mag velocities with 5-10 grains less powder. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
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  #10  
Old 02-06-2003, 07:39 PM
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Whitetail, thanks for the reply. I doubt I will have to worry about my throat length. I have a .250 Savage barrel from the Custom shop and the throat is long enough on it that I do the same thing you are talking about with powder charges. My hunting load is .072 longer than SAAMI spec for the round and my load is 1 grain over Nosler Manual Max. I went higher with no pressure signs but accuracy is better where I am. I will let you know how the barrel shoots after I get it and it warms up around here enough that you actually WANT to go outside. Best regards, Sean
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  #11  
Old 01-18-2005, 09:47 PM
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Savage makes two sizez of barrels now!

Before you assume that a barrel set up for a Savage will fit
your Savage bolt gun you need to be aware that Savage
quietly changed the barrel thread size to accomodate the
WSM cartridges. If you have a Savage in 300 WSM you cannot take an old Savage barrel and install it. The thread
diameter is now different.

Just thought you might like to know this.

Old Elk Hunter
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  #12  
Old 01-24-2005, 03:34 PM
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35 Sambar

[QUOTE=loader]This is a very obvious wildcat, and I am certain that there are already dies out there...I want one!

My plan is to get a custom 358 WSM bbl for my Savage in 300 WSM and the lock nut tool and swap 'em back and forth. My questions are:

1. I see on the Midway site that A&B offers inexpansive 358 Win bbls for the Savage - is there enough steel there to just ream out to 358 WSM?

2. Are any dies and reamers available off the shelf yet?

3. Any sense in the standard 1 in 12 inch twist rate? I want to be able shoot 310 gr Woodleighs but standard loads will be 225 gr Noslers. For fun there will also be .357 pistol bullets @ 1500fps.


The 10th edition of "Cartridges of the World" call the 35 WSM the 35 Sambar. It has loads including the 225 Nosler BT pushed by 75 gr.s of H 4350 for 2843 fps and 4048 ft/lbs. of energy. I have handoaded The 375 WSM myself. I also got energy levels up to 4060 ft/lbs. in different loads. So I beleive this is the realistic top energy level for either round out of a 20" barrel.

Last edited by Birddeerhunter; 01-24-2005 at 03:51 PM.
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  #13  
Old 01-25-2005, 09:43 PM
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Birddeerhunter, what was the COL of your 375?
I've been thinking how nice it would be to make a 416 WSM on a M&) short with the 3.1" COL. I think it would match the 416 C-T, given that extra .3" in powder.
I'd say the same about 358 or 375 cals.
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  #14  
Old 01-27-2005, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Friendly
Birddeerhunter, what was the COL of your 375?
I've been thinking how nice it would be to make a 416 WSM on a M&) short with the 3.1" COL. I think it would match the 416 C-T, given that extra .3" in powder.
I'd say the same about 358 or 375 cals.
The COL is 2.85" plus or minus a couple hundredths depending on the bullet loaded.
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  #15  
Old 02-01-2005, 03:37 AM
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The reason that Cartridges of the World calls it the 35 Sambar is that an Aussie Gun magazine built a project rifle on the 358 WSM and named it after our largest Deer in Australia, the Sambar. The loads and figures in cartridges of the World (I am guessing) are actual figures and loads from the developement of the rifle and cartridge.
It does sound like a great cartridge and would be great in a BLR or Browning Pump Action (or any of the nice bolt guns too).
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  #16  
Old 02-19-2005, 01:44 PM
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.358 is a great caliber

I am sure there are several wildcat cartridges that would give you great ballistics for the .358 caliber.

The 358 Norma mag was pretty good but is now obsolete. Hard to find brass but anything seemingly can be ordered online these days.

The .350 Would be an interesting choice.

But truly....the .35 Whelen Improved would seem to have ballistics better than the 350 Mag....without having to go through the trouble of building a new wildcat to make the WSM to fire 35 caliber bullets.

Think long and hard about just going with the Whelen. My goodness....isn't 2650 fps with the 250 grn bullet sufficient?
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  #17  
Old 03-29-2005, 06:29 AM
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Talking 35 Wsm

I have had that wildcatted since they came out with the 300 WSM hit the shelves. It is awsome!!!!!!!! It has a 23" stainless barrel, loaded with 64gr IMR 4320 pumping a 225gr Nosler partition going at 2820fps with sub MOA groups. I have only taken bear with it but cannot wait to get an elk with it. Any questions let me know. As for dies I just phoned up Hornady and asked them to neck out the 300 WSM dies they can make, the work great and necking up the 300 brass was done in one easy step with the dies, since the Hornady dies have the eliptical expander ball. If you do it, you will love it.

Dave
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  #18  
Old 10-18-2006, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rokken
I have had that wildcatted since they came out with the 300 WSM hit the shelves. It is awsome!!!!!!!! It has a 23" stainless barrel, loaded with 64gr IMR 4320 pumping a 225gr Nosler partition going at 2820fps with sub MOA groups. I have only taken bear with it but cannot wait to get an elk with it. Any questions let me know. As for dies I just phoned up Hornady and asked them to neck out the 300 WSM dies they can make, the work great and necking up the 300 brass was done in one easy step with the dies, since the Hornady dies have the eliptical expander ball. If you do it, you will love it.

Dave

Someone help me out here. Why does a .325 WSM struggle to get a 220gr bullet to 2800fps, but the same case as a .358 pushes a 225gr to 2820. Or even the data I found for the .375 WSM showing a 260gr Accubond at 2876. Is it just people chronoing from different distances ?
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  #19  
Old 10-20-2006, 01:15 PM
Con Con is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tang
Someone help me out here. Why does a .325 WSM struggle to get a 220gr bullet to 2800fps, but the same case as a .358 pushes a 225gr to 2820. Or even the data I found for the .375 WSM showing a 260gr Accubond at 2876. Is it just people chronoing from different distances ?
Tang,
Cartridges often become "more efficient" as they are necked up and run at similiar pressure levels ... hence the 338Federal will out run a 308Win loaded with similiar weight projectiles. It shouldnt be a huge difference, but it is there.

oldelkhunter raised a serious point, Savage's barrel shank and receiver diameters for the WSMs and RUMs IS NOT their standard barrel shank/receiver diameters. So your back to square one sourcing a barrel.

Easiest option for a 35WSM (35Sambar) build is rechambering the Ruger 350RemMag. Barrel is the proper 1:12" twist and the magazine box is already set for WSM cases. I bought one with similiar thoughts ... but like the 350RemMag too much to fiddle with it.
Cheers...
Con
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  #20  
Old 11-04-2006, 12:38 PM
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WSM larger bore wildcats make a lot of sense. Somewhere I read, of a serious African big game hunter of old, that when one goes bigger, with a rifle's power, one has to move up by 50% to notice any real difference.

Well, a 220 grain load (of existing WSM's) should go up to 330 grains, for real knock down increase.

For that reason, I think I would look at .404 or .416 for dangerous game, myself. I admire the .358 jump though. Going to be interesting to find out how well it works on real dangerous game...
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