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  #1  
Old 01-23-2010, 07:53 AM
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25-243 Improved Anyone?


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Checking in with the troops here to see if anyone has experience with the not-too-popular 25-243 Improved wildcat?

Am looking to build this in a short action M70 for double duty as a walkabout Coyote rifle (85gr BT's) and ditto as a deer rifle (100-115gr).

Current plan is to use 250 Savage AI data as a starting point for load development, but am hoping to run across someone else whose run this path before...?

Cheers,
BrakeMan
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  #2  
Old 01-23-2010, 11:21 AM
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BrakeMan,

been there done that - several times...

You can also start with standard 257 Roberts load data and work up from there. Stay with "standard" or bench rest primers and medium tpo slow burn rate powders. IMR-4350 will usually give you your highest velocity with the 85 gr. bullests as well as best accuracy. With the heavier weight bullets, try IMR-4831 and Reloader 19 and 22....

A
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  #3  
Old 01-23-2010, 12:30 PM
Darkker's Avatar
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Not sure what the spec's on the 25-243 Improved are; But seems like you are essentailly talking about the 25 Souper. Ala 25-308. In any case the internal volume should be about the same. Rocky Raab is the original "souper" professor, and has an article with loading data. RCBS also has the dies for it.
I don't have the link to his article handy, so just P.M. him.
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  #4  
Old 01-23-2010, 01:06 PM
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Thanks for the thoughts on this guys.
Sounds like some solid advise regarding the IMR4350 for those 85gr Ballistic Tips, thought I'd give Reloder 17 a try here too. RL 19 & 22 look good for the 100-115gr pills as well.

For reference; this Cat is simply a 243 Winchester necked up slightly to .257 and then blown out in the traditional Ackley Improved 40 mode. According to available data, should be roughly 56-57 grains in case capacity compared to the standard 243 at 52.8grs or the 25 Souper at 53.2, so anticipate a bit more juice out of the AI version.

As with virtually all Wildcats, I'm looking for something fun and different, really nothing about need. Interestingly and for whatever reason, the 25 caliber class in general seems to have become the bastard stepchild...
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  #5  
Old 02-04-2010, 10:39 PM
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the 25 caliber class in general seems to have become the bastard stepchild
Then you should try this little bastard 87 grain bullet at 3920 fps only 60 fps slower than the 257 wby & with 10 grs less powder to do it..
25-06AI
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  #6  
Old 02-05-2010, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKIE View Post
Then you should try this little bastard 87 grain bullet at 3920 fps only 60 fps slower than the 257 wby & with 10 grs less powder to do it..
25-06AI
Thanks for the note Okie.
Am assuming here you're referring to the 25-06 Improved...?
I'm working with a short action, so long action cartridges like those based on the `06 or Weatherby are not an option. Could certainly get on that page with the very capable 25-284, but frankly I prefer a more efficient bore/capacity configuration for this project. Not really overly concerned about maximum velocity but rather a user friendly combination of efficiency, accuracy and economy.
The 308 case has without doubt proven itself in virtually all its guises as being very efficient in the mid-size category. Accuracy? You bet, their collective reputation precedes them. And economy, it's there with excellent performance relative to the amount of powder burned.

And lastly, in a short action, one is fairly limited in viable options in the 25 caliber class. Particularly if one wants to keep the focus on the points detailed above.

But again, very much appreciate your input.

Cheers,
Brakeman
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  #7  
Old 02-05-2010, 08:59 AM
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HERE'S TO GET YOU STARTED
Notice this is 26 inch barrel

Available .25-08/.25 Souper Loads <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 bgColor=white border=0><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=19><HR color=gray SIZE=1></TD></TR><TR><TH>Bullet Make
& Wt. (gr)
</TH><TD></TD><TH>Powder
Type
</TH><TD></TD><TH>Charge
(gr)
</TH><TD></TD><TH>Muzzle
Vel. (fps)
</TH><TD></TD><TH>K. E.
(ft-lbs)
</TH><TD></TD><TH>Barrel
Len. (in)
</TH><TD></TD><TH><!--view--></TH><TD></TD><TH><!--edit--></TH><TD></TD><TH>Owner<!--submitter--></TH><TD></TD><TH><!--notes--></TH></TR><TR><TD colSpan=19><HR color=gray SIZE=1></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top bgColor=white><NOBR>87 Hornady</NOBR></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white><NOBR>Alliant/Herc Reloder-15
</NOBR>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white><NOBR>44.0M
</NOBR>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white><NOBR>3399
</NOBR>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white><NOBR>2232
</NOBR>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white><NOBR>26.0
</NOBR>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white><NOBR>View
</NOBR>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white><NOBR></NOBR></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white></TD><TD vAlign=top align=left bgColor=white><NOBR>stigma</NOBR></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white><NOBR></NOBR></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top bgColor=white><NOBR>87 Hornady</NOBR></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white><NOBR>IMR-3031
</NOBR>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white><NOBR>42.0M
</NOBR>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white><NOBR>3445
</NOBR>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white><NOBR>2293
</NOBR>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white><NOBR>26.0
</NOBR>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white><NOBR>View
</NOBR>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white><NOBR></NOBR></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white></TD><TD vAlign=top align=left bgColor=white><NOBR>stigma</NOBR></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white><NOBR></NOBR></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top bgColor=white><NOBR>87 Hornady</NOBR></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white><NOBR>Hodgdon H-4895
</NOBR>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white><NOBR>43.0M
</NOBR>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white><NOBR>3448
</NOBR>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white><NOBR>2297
</NOBR>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white><NOBR>26.0
</NOBR>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white><NOBR>View
</NOBR>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white><NOBR></NOBR></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white></TD><TD vAlign=top align=left bgColor=white><NOBR>stigma</NOBR></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white><NOBR></NOBR></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=white></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top bgColor=#ffffe0><NOBR>117 Sierra</NOBR></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0><NOBR>IMR-4064
</NOBR>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0><NOBR>38.0
</NOBR>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0><NOBR>2861
</NOBR>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0><NOBR>2127
</NOBR>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0><NOBR>26.0
</NOBR>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0><NOBR>View
</NOBR>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0><NOBR></NOBR></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0></TD><TD vAlign=top align=left bgColor=#ffffe0><NOBR>stigma</NOBR></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0><NOBR></NOBR></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top bgColor=#ffffe0><NOBR>117 Sierra</NOBR></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0><NOBR>Alliant/Herc Reloder-15
</NOBR>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0><NOBR>40.0M
</NOBR>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0><NOBR>2929
</NOBR>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0><NOBR>2229
</NOBR>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0><NOBR>26.0
</NOBR>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0><NOBR>View
</NOBR>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0><NOBR></NOBR></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0></TD><TD vAlign=top align=left bgColor=#ffffe0><NOBR>stigma</NOBR></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0><NOBR></NOBR></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top bgColor=#ffffe0><NOBR>117 Sierra</NOBR></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0><NOBR>Alliant/Herc Reloder-19
</NOBR>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0><NOBR>48.0M
</NOBR>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0><NOBR>3029
</NOBR>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0><NOBR>2384
</NOBR>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0><NOBR>26.0
</NOBR>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0><NOBR>View
</NOBR>
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0><NOBR></NOBR></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0></TD><TD vAlign=top align=left bgColor=#ffffe0><NOBR>stigma</NOBR></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffe0><NOBR></NOBR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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  #8  
Old 03-14-2010, 01:14 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: S. Oregon
Posts: 18
25 Souper [and AI]

I have two 25 Soupers. One has the normal 1-10 twist and the other a
1-12. As I almost always shoot ONLY 100 gr bullets the 1-12 is the user rifle. The other only if I want to shoot heavier [117 gr] bullets. I rebarreled another in a 1-12 Douglas in the 25 Souper AI [40deg] case. It slightly out performs the other 1-12 but really shows it`s stuff with the heavier bullets. Not at 100yds [accuracy wise] but at 200+. It surprised me! It is VERY accurate with the 177 Sierra Gamekings and gets better velosity than the 1-10 one as it has an easier time getting the bullets moving against the quicker twist. Meat damage is still more that I like so I will stick to the 100 gr bullets for deer and els. Bear? Well I will probably use something else entirely different like my 264 Mag. Thus said if you want a combo deer/varmint I would suggest a 1-12 barrel for your project. It will shoot the lighter bullets better. Just my normal .02
Aloha, Mark
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  #9  
Old 03-16-2010, 02:22 PM
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I have a .257 Ackley Improved and love it. Have had it for 40 years and it's a very efficient cartridge. I get 3200 fps with a 100 gr. Nosler Partition and lots of WT's, antelope and some muleys have been taken with it. You might consider it.
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