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  #1  
Old 02-25-2010, 02:53 PM
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Can somebody help me out with making a new wildcat.


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Hey Shooters forum.com i would really like to create a wildcat cartridge based on .30 carbine brass necked down to a .25 caliber bullet. I would just like to know some of the process of creating dies and stuff of the sort oh and i can't find any 30 carbine dimensions, help please?
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  #2  
Old 02-25-2010, 03:40 PM
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http://www.stevespages.com/page8d.htm

Link to cartridge dimensions. As for how to, I would start with a call to Dave Kiff.

Good Shooting
Gary
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  #3  
Old 02-25-2010, 04:42 PM
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Welcome, Soontobewildcat. Rules are simple, be nice and join in!

The first thing you do when creating a true, custom wildcat is tear 3 or 4 checks out of your checkbook. Don't put any amounts or payee information on the check, just sign 'em and be ready to send them out.

Once that is done, you start digging around because odds are 1000:1 that someone has either done EXACTLY what you want to do, or something similar/better. (The first one that comes to mind is the .357Mag case, necked down to 25 caliber.) After you stubbornly decide you're making it anyway, you have to figure out which comes first, the reamer or the dies. You make lots of tough choices, like what rate of twist to use, what COL you'll have, which bullets you expect to use and what "cool" name to call it! Then, you cough up one of those checks to have some drawings done up and have the reamer or dies custom-built. From there, you send that piece off to another guy (along with a check) to create whichever item you didn't have made first. Now you're set. Sorta.

Grab another check, mail it to the gunsmith with the drawings, reamer and dies. He'll chuckle a little, until he sees the blank check...then you got his attention. So, you buy an action and a barrel and wait 6-8 months for the gunsmith to finally get to your project. By then, you've almost forgotten you are having a custom wildcat built and you have no idea where check 2415 went.

Eventually you get a call that your gun is finished!! When it arrives in the mail, it's every gun nut's dream, polished n' shiny, ready to shoot groups so tight you use a 3X5 card for your backdrop and stamps for targets. You go to your reloading bench and promptly crush three cases, trying to adjust the dies. Finally, you figure that out, load up your first rounds and head for the range. If you're lucky, you get less than a 5" group on the first firing and gradually find something that is accurate enough to make you proud.

Then, you get out the chronograph and shoot a few loads over it. ?? "That can't be right!" You shoot a few more and decide your chronograph is junk. You get your buddy to let you shoot over his Oehler...same thing. Looking back through your reloading manual, you realize there are 8 commercial rounds and 3 common wildcats that better the performance of yours by at least 15%.

Fortunately, you have a very understanding and consoling wife.

You immediately start dreaming up your next wildcat!

Been there, done that...will do it again, soon.

Jason
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  #4  
Old 02-25-2010, 06:06 PM
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Thank you guys very much you were very helpful and fast i love this forum i am working on drawings of it but one thing do know for sure that this is a very long term project as fundings arnt there but thanks so much for you help and oh yea im thinking 25-30 M1 or .25 BAM1R pronounced bammer and stands for bad *** m1 round
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  #5  
Old 02-25-2010, 07:34 PM
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Did you have a platform in mind for the 25-30M1? The case volume and pressure range of the 30US cartridge really limits what powders are suitable for it. I have 3 different wildcats and handload for as many obsolete rounds, so far be it from me to act as a wet blanket, but I really don't think the 30US case is a good choice to design a wildcat around. Neck down a 7.62X39 or a rimmed cartridge, like the 30/30, to 25 (I'm sure both have been done). The inherent limitations of the 30 M1 just doesn't lend itself to wildcatting.

But, it's your time and money.
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  #6  
Old 02-25-2010, 07:50 PM
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broom, i understand what your saying but i really want to build something from a spare M1 action any ideas maby something thats already been made?
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  #7  
Old 02-25-2010, 08:30 PM
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do ya think the M1 carbine could be trained to run 327 federal revolver rounds?
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  #8  
Old 02-25-2010, 08:33 PM
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I think anythings possible but why? Im open to all new ideas but i think the 30 carbine out performs ammos more avaible and cheaper and no modifications have to be done. If you want to i say what the **** but I wouldnt personally.
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  #9  
Old 02-25-2010, 08:53 PM
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Fellow at the range has a .22/30M1 that he enjoys and seems quite accurate at 100 yds.
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  #10  
Old 02-25-2010, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soontobewildcat View Post
broom, i understand what your saying but i really want to build something from a spare M1 action any ideas maby something thats already been made?
The .22MMJ is the .30 Carbine necked down to .22 cal. At one time Gun Parts Corp had barrels for this Cal. available for the M1 Carbine.

Your idea of a .25/.30 Carbine would be a .25/20 rimless improved, or better yet, a .25 rimless Bee. Starting loads would probably be those for the .25/20.

Good luck with your project.
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  #11  
Old 02-26-2010, 09:13 AM
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M1894, now you went and encourged him!
Seriously, good luck with your endeaver.
I have seen/heard of the M1 C redone as a bolt action .357 mag. (bolt handle welded to the GI bolt)
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  #12  
Old 02-26-2010, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredT View Post
M1894, now you went and encourged him!
Seriously, good luck with your endeaver.
I have seen/heard of the M1 C redone as a bolt action .357 mag. (bolt handle welded to the GI bolt)
Wow, that would be an odd-looking duck! I would imagine the action could handle the pressure, but you're saying it was shooting regular 357 mag cartridges, right? I'm just thinking it would be pretty tough to neck the 30US up to .357 bullets.
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  #13  
Old 02-26-2010, 02:44 PM
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Yea im familiar with the 5.7 spitfire
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  #14  
Old 02-26-2010, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredT View Post
M1894, now you went and encourged him!
Seriously, good luck with your endeaver.
I have seen/heard of the M1 C redone as a bolt action .357 mag. (bolt handle welded to the GI bolt)
No need to weld bolt handle to bolt, just disable gas port, and you have a straight pull bolt action.(Bolt doesn't unlock without an assist grom the gas system or else starting it back by the charging handle.) A friend has one that was converted to a pump action for use as a .44 Mag.
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Last edited by M1894; 04-04-2010 at 12:56 PM.
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  #15  
Old 02-26-2010, 04:13 PM
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8D Wow all i can say is wow.
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  #16  
Old 03-14-2010, 01:45 PM
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25 Stb????

Hey STB,
No big deal. Find a guy who will barrel a carbine for you and get him a barrel. Start with a El-Cheapo A&B barrel or some cheap takeoff. Another way would be to get a beater carbine barrel and re-line with a 25 cal liner from Brownells [90.00 ?] and just chamber. Dave Kiff can take a standard .30 cal carbine reamer and knock down the neck to the .25 cal easily enough. There is your barrel. I looked in the CH/4D die catalog and there isn`t a 25 STB listed but I am sure ol Dave Davison can make the dies. Another way would be to ask him to just ream out a 22 MMJ neck to the proper diameter--about .285 or so. If I can make 22MMJ cases in one pass through the FL Sizer MMJ die making a .25 neck is a snap. Heck! You can use the 60 gr bullets for the 25-20 Win and have a ball. Not as much fun as my little 17 PeeWee [17 Carbine] but still fun. THEN!! If the little gun does what you want but lacks the accuracy etc you can pull the barrel and have Douglas/Shilen made up and use it for the rest of your life as I don`t think you could EVER shoot it out.
Aloha, Mark
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  #17  
Old 03-14-2010, 02:35 PM
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Don’t forget LeBounty from La. He converted M1 Carbines to 45 Win Mag for awhile and these were well thought of.
The first thing you should do is get a copy of RCBS Load. The cartridge designer function is excellent. You can draw dream cartridges to your hearts content.
Then get a copy of Load From A disk. Load from a disk uses the Powley math and works with IMR powders. I believe you may be better of starting this way although if you build the rifle you will end up using Winchester 296, Hodgdon 110 and Lil’ Gun.


I left a double shoulder on the case, sorry about that, i was in a hurry becasue this is a dial up conection.
Attached Thumbnails
Can somebody help me out with making a new wildcat.-25-30-carbine-670x491.jpg   Can somebody help me out with making a new wildcat.-25-30-carbine-color-218x500.jpg  
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Last edited by William Iorg; 03-14-2010 at 03:35 PM. Reason: fixed drawings
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  #18  
Old 03-14-2010, 03:34 PM
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Why not a .256 Win Mag Rimless made with .223 brass? Known load data, easy to find brass, readily available dies.
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  #19  
Old 04-04-2010, 07:26 AM
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Well I once knew a fellow that did a "wildcat" using a .25-caliber bullet! It later became known as the 25/06!!! Then he did one back in 1964 or 65, can't remember anymore sharpe as I used to anyway. Well this project was using a .300 Win mag case and stick a 120 grain bullet on top. He also later went the route of using a 100, & 140 grain bullet on top of a .300Win mag case.
He ended up with what was close in ballistics to the .257-Weatherby as I remember.
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  #20  
Old 04-05-2010, 04:42 AM
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I saw in a back issue of The Gun Digest where an article was written and they mention a .30 Carbine necked down to .25 Cal. This was in a mid-1960's Digest.
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