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  #1  
Old 04-11-2010, 12:44 PM
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6.5mm Wildcat help.


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So I am looking at possibly building a wildcat based on a 6.5mm wildcat of some sort. I currently own a 260 Rem and just want to try the next thing...you know how us gun loonies are. I am really impressed with and would really like to stay with the 6.5mm thing.

The goals being able to get the most possible out of a 6.5mm bullet on a short action. Barrel life of course being a consideration but not top priority. I have read some stuff on the 6.5 WSM and that seemed promising. I have heard mention of 6.5 SAUM but haven't really seen much else on it. Saw a site with mention of a 6.5x51 (Basically a shortened 6.5x55 Swede). And another consideration would be efficient use of powder.

So here's the question. If you could have a 6.5mm in what ever flavor you could get it in what would it be and why?

I am not limited to a short action but would prefer it. And this rifle would ultimately be built on some sort of Savage Action.
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  #2  
Old 04-11-2010, 02:07 PM
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Without going to a long action or short-fat magnum, you'd have a difficult time beating your 260Rem, or either of its contemporaries listed in this article: http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-s...creedmoor/?p=2

In my opinion, the "next thing" for you would be a 6.5-'06 or 6.5x284; the latter being a very successful match cartridge, surpassing the popularity of the parent cartridge by a significant margin. Either would give a couple hundred fps more velocity and make an excellent choice for long-range targets and/or hunting.
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  #3  
Old 04-11-2010, 02:39 PM
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Agree with broom. I have a 6.5-06 that is one of my favorites, and it is so easy. I use 25-06 brass. You could go down the path of putting one together on the 300/7mm/270 WSM cases, but you won't do much better than the 6.5 Rem Mag, although you would get cheated out of that wildcat experience by choosing the 6.5 RM!
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  #4  
Old 04-11-2010, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Shawn Crea View Post
You could go down the path of putting one together on the 300/7mm/270 WSM cases, but you won't do much better than the 6.5 Rem Mag, although you would get cheated out of that wildcat experience by choosing the 6.5 RM!
LOL! That's part of the whole thing right? I have had many "vanilla" rifles over the years and I am now looking for that strange rifle that not many other people have. Of course, then there is the argument that there is a reason why everyone else doesn't have that particular caliber.

Basically, I want to get the most I can out of a 6.5mm bullet and am looking to build something. I am not opposed to going long action or even short fat magnum. And of course I am not afraid of a wildcat cartridge. Plus being the only guy on the block to have one.

Shooter 1: "What are you shooting there?"
Shooter 2: "Oh, it's this old 30-06. How about you, what are you shooting?"
Shooter 1" "I am shooting this 270 and I have a 300 Win Mag in the truck. I wonder what that guy is shooting."
Me: "Oh, me? I am shooting this 6.5mm eargensplittenloudenboomer. I built it last winter and it really shoots great."

Having the Wildcat is half the fun.
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  #5  
Old 04-11-2010, 03:25 PM
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I've been toying with the idea of a 260 AI Rem. Probably marginal gains over the original but interesting anyway.
Also the 6.5 Rem Magnum has my attention, but on a longer barrel, brass is available at Midway for one. Lotsa options out there.
I had a 6.5/284 but put it on a Weatherby MkV and the magazine was too short to get its full potential since I had to seat the bullet too deep for the 140 grain loads. As a single shot, it was very accurate.
Killed another coyote this morning with the 6.5x55, it would be an interesting cartridge blown out Ackley style

Good luck
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Last edited by tpv; 04-11-2010 at 03:30 PM.
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  #6  
Old 04-11-2010, 03:40 PM
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Love my 6.5-06AI but that's long action. I think highly of the 260 Rem, too.
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  #7  
Old 04-11-2010, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by lomfs24 View Post
Oh, me? I am shooting this 6.5mm eargensplittenloudenboomer. I built it last winter and it really shoots great.
HA HA HA! Absolutely go with that! .378 Weatherby case necked down to 6.5 would be different for sure!

Bring along spare barrels!
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  #8  
Old 04-11-2010, 07:15 PM
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378 Weatherby to 6.5??? Interesting for sure. I know there is no clear line between what is considered overbore and what isn't. My own personal definition is excess powder for marginal gains. So if the 6.5 Rem Mag is pushing a 140 gr. bullet at 3200 fps with xx.x grains of powder and the eargensplittenloudenboomer is pushing the same bullet at 3300 fps with xx.x (times two) grains of powder the the gains aren't worth the expense and in my book it's overbore.

So if I can get a 6.5-06 to meet a certain velocity but I can get a short action to come close to or match the velocity with less powder then I would rather go with the short action. But if the 6.5-06 is the best velocity for the best powder load, then that's were I want to be.

For instance, I don't think there are great gains with the 264 Win Mag over the 6.5 Rem Mag, but, if I am not mistaken, it requires more powder. Therefore, I would favor the 6.5 Rem Mag over the 264 Win Mag. But if I can get nearly the same results, and more consistent with a Short Mag with even less powder then that's the way I want to go. I just haven't played with each of these enough to know and don't really have the money to play with each.

Therefore, I am reaching into the knowledge base here to get those answers.
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  #9  
Old 04-11-2010, 08:07 PM
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I did a 6.5/06 awhile back and I like it a lot for it's accuracy, shootability and being able to double up better on small game as well as predator's on occasion too. It has more power for the big game critters than my old 25/06. I think for the bigger game across the spectrum, it will do a more suitable job handling muledeer and larger if need be, especially with those 160 grain bullet weights.

Last edited by 2Bits; 04-11-2010 at 08:09 PM.
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  #10  
Old 04-11-2010, 09:20 PM
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I built my 6.5-06AI with up through elk in mind. So, I was thinking specifically of either the Sierra 160 semi-spitzer or, more likely, the Norma Oryx 156. Therefore, I also opted for a faster 1:8" twist.
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  #11  
Old 04-12-2010, 03:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lomfs24 View Post
378 Weatherby to 6.5??? Interesting for sure. I know there is no clear line between what is considered overbore and what isn't. My own personal definition is excess powder for marginal gains. So if the 6.5 Rem Mag is pushing a 140 gr. bullet at 3200 fps with xx.x grains of powder and the eargensplittenloudenboomer is pushing the same bullet at 3300 fps with xx.x (times two) grains of powder the the gains aren't worth the expense and in my book it's overbore.

So if I can get a 6.5-06 to meet a certain velocity but I can get a short action to come close to or match the velocity with less powder then I would rather go with the short action. But if the 6.5-06 is the best velocity for the best powder load, then that's were I want to be.

For instance, I don't think there are great gains with the 264 Win Mag over the 6.5 Rem Mag, but, if I am not mistaken, it requires more powder. Therefore, I would favor the 6.5 Rem Mag over the 264 Win Mag. But if I can get nearly the same results, and more consistent with a Short Mag with even less powder then that's the way I want to go. I just haven't played with each of these enough to know and don't really have the money to play with each.

Therefore, I am reaching into the knowledge base here to get those answers.
If you want higher velocity from a 6.5, you must increase the amount of powder being burned and/or the barrel length being used. The term "performance" is a good deal more than velocity, imho.

Below is a list of common 6.5 chamberings and their respective case capacity, in H2O.

6.5x70R, 39
6.5 Jap, 48
6.5x52 Carcano, 49
6.5x53R, 49
.260 Rem, 53
6.5x55, 57
6.5x57(R), 58
** (284Win) 66 (Perhaps 63-64, when necked down?)
6.5-'06 65
6.5 Rem Mag, 68
.264 Win Mag, 82

Many people have tried to quantify the term "over-bore" with various formulas, but I've always felt that barrel throats don't lie: If a given cartridge is loaded to its potential and the result erodes the throat, to the point accuracy suffers, in 3,000 rounds or less, it's clearly overbore. As such, and by consensus, the .264WM is truly over-bore. From this list, anything with more capacity than the 6.5x57R is close to, if not over-bore, for the 26 caliber. The case capacity of the 300 WSM is ~80 grain of H2O, so I would expect a case necked down to .264" to hold around 75gr, putting it somewhere between the 6.5RM and .264WM. Definitely over-bore, in my opinion.

One of the most intriguing options out there to get the most from a 6.5 is the 284 parent, but if you want something different that would also be pretty efficient, consider a 6.5x55AI. That is taking a superb parent case and making it just a little better, without going over-bore, and would certainly be unique enough for most!

Here's an old thread discussing various 6.5 options: http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=5439&page=2
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  #12  
Old 04-12-2010, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lomfs24 View Post
Me: "Oh, me? I am shooting this 6.5mm eargensplittenloudenboomer. I built it last winter and it really shoots great."

Having the Wildcat is half the fun.
You say you have read up on the 6.5mm WSM, so you have probably seen my posts on the subject here, and I won't repeat them unnecessarily.

My six-five definitely attracts a lot of attention at the range. It is a big, long gun, and with the muzzle brake it is really loud. Half of the folks who see it want to know if it is a .50 cal, and everyone is surprised when they learn that it is only a 6.5mm. If you are going for shock and awe and hearing loss, then a setup like mine is a good way to achieve it.

In all seriousness, the 6.5mm WSM closely mimics the performance of the .264 Win Mag, but in a non-belted short action. The cartridge makes good use of a long barrel and very slow burning powders, which can bring 3300-3400 fps within reach using 140gr bullets. The high velocity significantly reduces wind deflection at longer ranges. And as you know, .264" diameter bullets are available with high ballistic coefficients and high sectional densities. The 123gr Lapua Scenar and the 130gr Berger VLD are bullets with excellent properties for long-range shooting, and the new 123gr Hornady A-Max also looks very promising.
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  #13  
Old 04-15-2010, 07:00 AM
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Thank you everyone for all your input. I have been a work for a few days and am a few posts behind.

UnCruel, I can't say that I have read all of your posts but I have read a few and quite frankly, it's your posts about the 6.5 WSM that caused me to sign up for an account here.

How long is your barrel on your 6.5 WSM? If you used a slightly faster powder how would you expect it to shoot out of a 24" or 26" barrel? Or would that be pushing the limits of barrel length?

As I mentioned before, I already have a 260 Rem which I will probably continue to shoot for targets. It's a little slower and the range folks don't seem to complain about steel targets getting torn up as much if the bullets are a little slower.

So this rifle would be more of a hunting, long range hunting rig. Think open range land, antelope, mule deer and elk. And I don't really want a really long barrel for packing around. I would not be opposed to a shorter heavier barrel like a varmit contour.

But again, I am open to suggestions.
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  #14  
Old 04-15-2010, 08:56 AM
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Now why not just go whole HOG? Yep, you place that little 6.5 puppy on top of one of those .300 Remington Ultra Mag cases and you will surely get lots of looks at the shooting range. I would suspect your velocity would be at least in the 3400fps range with a 160 grain bullet.
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  #15  
Old 04-15-2010, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by lomfs24 View Post
UnCruel, I can't say that I have read all of your posts but I have read a few and quite frankly, it's your posts about the 6.5 WSM that caused me to sign up for an account here.

How long is your barrel on your 6.5 WSM? If you used a slightly faster powder how would you expect it to shoot out of a 24" or 26" barrel? Or would that be pushing the limits of barrel length?

As I mentioned before, I already have a 260 Rem which I will probably continue to shoot for targets. It's a little slower and the range folks don't seem to complain about steel targets getting torn up as much if the bullets are a little slower.
Aww, shucks

My barrel is 27.5" long, a Broughton stainless steel five-groove with canted lands. With either faster burning powder or a shorter barrel, I would expect lower velocities. Maybe 100-300 fps difference, but that is just a guess.

My primary deer rifle is a .260 Remington, I really like that cartridge as well.
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  #16  
Old 04-15-2010, 06:53 PM
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lomfs, I have been racking my brain all day to think about short action cartridges that will fit your needs, and I am going to have to say that broom and uncruel have the best options I can think of.

The 6.5X55AI and the 6.5-284 are both great cartridges and have performance gains over the 260 but its minimal. IMHO if you want speed and a harder hitting cartridge, uncruel's 6.5 wsm is the way to go.

But I like the 6.5 caliber a lot and think that if you go with a long action gun, you will have many more choices for a wildcat cartridge. Just my opinion.
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  #17  
Old 04-16-2010, 12:17 PM
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I have been shooting a 6.5 X 57R ala Gibbs design for the past 3 years. It duplicates the 6.5 X 284 in all bullet weights. This was after I took a 7X65R RWS case did the Gibbs but changed the shoulder to 30 degrees. This one beats the 6.5 X 284 by 150-200fps depending on bullet weight.

I just finished testing a new barrel hardening process in which I did not loose accuracy and gained 100fps with the same load in the same barrel prior to the Ferratic Nitrate bath. The bath which hardens .003 into the steel at 70R stressed relieved both my barrel and action.

Now I am in the process of improving my 6.5WSM which in its current state gets about 4-600 rounds before the match accuracy starts to go. There are a few 6.5 Rums running around as wildcats and the barrel life will even be shorter than the 6.5WSM. To date the smith that has been doing the Nitate hardening process has over a hundred barrels out starting 3 years ago. He requested they each keep a round count and bring the treated barrels back for inspection. As stated, it has been 3 years and no barrels have come back through the door.

Benchmark barrels currently has my reamer and gauge if you find this interesting. It is called the 6.5 Stretch.

Neal

Last edited by 338 Hammertyme; 04-16-2010 at 12:19 PM.
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  #18  
Old 05-29-2010, 01:20 PM
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the 6.5 on the 378 case has been done, as well as the 284 on the 378 case.
it was not an overwhelming success.
the late joe reits of sunbury pa. had both during his day. i believe he still had the 284 version when he died.
the argument over these things will never end. there are valid points on all sides.

my personal opinion of the big powder burners is they aint worth it.
that is till you sit behind one being shot, and watch thru good tripod mounted glasses as it streaks across these wide valleys.
to **** with what those old gun writers thought. at 75 i remember lots of them well.
im picking up my new 6.5 x300wsm on tuesday.
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  #19  
Old 06-14-2010, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by lomfs24 View Post
Thank you everyone for all your input. I have been a work for a few days and am a few posts behind.

UnCruel, I can't say that I have read all of your posts but I have read a few and quite frankly, it's your posts about the 6.5 WSM that caused me to sign up for an account here.

How long is your barrel on your 6.5 WSM? If you used a slightly faster powder how would you expect it to shoot out of a 24" or 26" barrel? Or would that be pushing the limits of barrel length?

As I mentioned before, I already have a 260 Rem which I will probably continue to shoot for targets. It's a little slower and the range folks don't seem to complain about steel targets getting torn up as much if the bullets are a little slower.

So this rifle would be more of a hunting, long range hunting rig. Think open range land, antelope, mule deer and elk. And I don't really want a really long barrel for packing around. I would not be opposed to a shorter heavier barrel like a varmit contour.

But again, I am open to suggestions.
Savage now produces the 6.5 X 284 in their Model 111 Long Range Hunter platform. Has a 1:8 twist and a 26" barrel. Norma also produces 6.5 X 284 brass commercially. Looks like the 111 is produced in standard length actions so it "might be" long throated to avoid having to seat the longer 6.5 bullets deep into the case...as you would likely have to do if you built a 6.5 X 284 on a short action.

I personally built and use a 6.5-06 on a 1903 Springfield and specifically built it to be able to "retire" my 256 Newton.

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  #20  
Old 06-23-2010, 12:17 PM
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i would like to have the 6.5 allen magnum
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