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  #1  
Old 04-15-2010, 01:20 PM
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Large calibre subsonic suggestions.


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Hello from the UK. I am looking at making a new deer gun and have spied a few large calibre subsonic rounds floating about. I was just wondering if any one could recommend any such rounds for me to look at?

Thanks,
Z
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  #2  
Old 04-15-2010, 01:25 PM
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The 375 Whisper jumps to mind...is that one of the rounds you noticed? If I'm not mistaken, it's a 6mm BR necked up to .375 and can be loaded down to subsonic levels.
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Old 04-15-2010, 01:42 PM
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Thanks Broom_jm. It was more the .338 and 510 Whisper. I did see the .375 mentioned but could not find much information on it. I had also seen the .500 Phanton as well. Has any one cut down a .338 Rem Ultra Mag and necked it to a .510 do you know?
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Old 04-15-2010, 02:24 PM
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The .500 Phantom is pretty much dead. Marty has DCed that round and there will be no more brass available. I am currently working with this round in the LR-308 platform and shooting the 649 gr. BMG bullet I am getting 925 to 960 fps. Very accurate too but not enough gas with the powder I am using to operate the action so it is back to the drawing board with another powder.
If you choose to use this round you will have to find someone to cut down .500 Jeffrey cases to spec and it is ashamed it is a dead round. It really packs a wallop and would work through a .308 length action, since that is what I am working with. The brass is the hard part and in a bolt gun it would be cake to work with, only thing is since the round is dead and no more brass is available where is one to get the brass, and I sure won't turn loose of any of mine.
A German company, Hornburer or something like that and imported through Garber is the one who made the last brass but it took a huge order and over a year to fill, which is why the round was allowed to die. The company was a real PITA to work with requiring all money up front and no guaranteed delivery date.
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  #5  
Old 04-15-2010, 04:46 PM
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JD Jones has done a lot with the Whisper line of cartridges, as discussed on this website: http://www.sskindustries.com/cartridges.htm

A 460S&W cut down and opened up to 50 caliber...that sounds interesting.

It was pointed out to me that this would be a 460 Weatherby, not S&W.
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Last edited by broom_jm; 04-16-2010 at 05:42 PM. Reason: Mistaken parent cartridge
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  #6  
Old 04-16-2010, 03:33 PM
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I don't think that is the 460 S&W but rather the .460 Weatherby mag. Kind of hard to open up a .460 S&W to anything larger since it is pretty much a straight walled case.
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  #7  
Old 04-16-2010, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Bore View Post
I don't think that is the 460 S&W but rather the .460 Weatherby mag. Kind of hard to open up a .460 S&W to anything larger since it is pretty much a straight walled case.
I stand corrected and will add an edit to my post, to clear up my mistake! Could a .460S&W be loaded down to subsonic?
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Old 04-16-2010, 06:13 PM
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If you are handloading does it really matter what the parent case is, as long as it ends up subsonic? I'll admit to lack of experience..... my only subsonic loads are lapping loads, and very similar cast bullet loads.

However I have killed one deer and one pig with subsonic loads in my .35 Rem.
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Old 04-17-2010, 02:35 AM
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I was wondering how well a case meant to work at very high pressures (60K+) seals the chamber during ignition with subsonic loads? Is that why such large bullets are used...to create enough inertia in the projectile to drive up pressures in the case, such that the chamber does get sealed off? Seems like that would make a straight-walled case better for such efforts?
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Old 04-17-2010, 09:06 AM
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Its a shame about the Phantom as looking in to it further looks perfect in size and performance. I guess when you start off with a round as uncommon and expensive as the Jeffrey it was always going to have a hard time. How many times would you be happy to reload a Phantom case Big Bore? MikeG I have just looked at the .35 Rem though the bullet looks a bit light.
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  #11  
Old 04-17-2010, 01:29 PM
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My first lot of 50 has 3 loadings on it and they are still going strong. I have been doing a lot of experimenting with the M33 bullet and since I am still on my first lot of brass, I don't know how long it will hold up. If I can get 5 loadings I will be OK, 10 would make me really happy. Even though the velocity is slow the pressures are way up there but the main thing that looks to be the brass killer is the dings and dents from feeding and extraction in the semi. The rifle is not running properly yet and I have exhausted the combinations using H110 so it is time to try another powder. Once it is feeding and ejecting properly case life is sure to be a lot longer than what this first lot will be because of all the feeding and extraction problems with H110. It seems I cannot get the pressure curve right with this powder so it is time to try something else.
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  #12  
Old 04-17-2010, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by broom_jm View Post
I stand corrected and will add an edit to my post, to clear up my mistake! Could a .460S&W be loaded down to subsonic?
Easily. The .45 Colt (which usually can be fired in the 460 S&W) is easily loaded subsonic so if in a single shot rifle, handgun, lever action, or even a bolt gun, I cannot imagine not being able to load it down to subsonic levels or just use the .45 Colt round in there.
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  #13  
Old 04-17-2010, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Bore View Post
Easily. The .45 Colt (which usually can be fired in the 460 S&W) is easily loaded subsonic so if in a single shot rifle, handgun, lever action, or even a bolt gun, I cannot imagine not being able to load it down to subsonic levels or just use the .45 Colt round in there.
Ditto that. And the 44 mag as well which you can get in many lever guns. No need to go wildcat.

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  #14  
Old 04-19-2010, 11:10 AM
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My good friend Mike Cyrus at Cross Outdoors has developed a cartridge called the 50 TAC that was purposely designed around shooting .510" 50 BMG bullets at subsonic levels. They have even done some testing on supressed rifles with the round. You can get his contact info at www.crossoutdoors.com
He has gotten response from several people who have been interested in the 50 TAC as an alternative to the .510 Whisper
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  #15  
Old 04-19-2010, 07:25 PM
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50-70-750

Not exactly a wildcat in the truest sense but SSK (J.D. Jones) has offered fast twist barrels for what he calls the 50-70-750.
One simply takes 50-70 brass and loads it with about 34 grains of H322 and seats a BMG bullet on top. I use the 690 grain bullets more often than the 750s. The bullets come out of the gun at about 900 fps.
Interestingly, the barrel that I have is for my T/C Encore and recoil is surprisingly fierce. The recoil impulse is very fast.
Pete
Here's a pic with a 750 grain bullet - the little case is the smallest Whisper, using a .30 Luger case:
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Last edited by Pete D.; 04-20-2010 at 03:38 AM.
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  #16  
Old 07-05-2010, 01:36 AM
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50 Alaskin

I have a 50 Alaskin with a bore rider chamber that i run 850 grain bronze VLDs at 1000 fps on a Ruger number 3, has a 13 inch 1-8 twist barrel with a Fisher Brake.....
And believe it or not, it drops deer and pigs...
Could do it on a Siamese Mauser...
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  #17  
Old 07-05-2010, 04:26 AM
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Back in the early 1960's the late Frank C. Barnes developed a cartridge: .458 X 1.5" (11.63 X 33mm Belted) that was subsonic with a 500 grain bullet & a velocity of around 1,100 FPS. It was an experimental cartridge used in heavy barreled bolt action rifles during the Vietnam War. If you're interested in a low velocity cartridge this might fit your needs. More on the History of this round can be found in the 6th edition of Cartridges Of The World on page 281.
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