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  #1  
Old 07-21-2010, 08:02 AM
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Question Loads for 416 Taylor


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About loading the 416 Taylor:
I find plenty of data available for loading 400 grain bullets in the 416 Taylor, and almost none for loading 350 grain bullets. Can anybody get me started? I'm interested in using IMR 4320 or IMR 4895, behind a Speer 350 grain Hot-Cor Mag Tip. Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 07-21-2010, 09:01 PM
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Try Ken Waters Pet Loads. I believe he did a write up in there.
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  #3  
Old 07-22-2010, 04:45 PM
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Daniel,
I use the 350 Mag Tip, but with 73.0 gr RL-15 & CCI 250 primer. I honestly can't comment on that load though as it's been awhile, and I haven't shot it that much.

Suggest you do a search in both the wildcat forum, and the handloading forum; think it's been discussed before. Good luck.
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  #4  
Old 07-24-2010, 07:11 PM
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<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=5 width=623 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=center width="19%" height=30>Taken from the 416 Taylor webpage ( now offline)


</TD><TD vAlign=center width="10%" height=30>


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</TD><TD vAlign=center width="12%" height=30>


</TD><TD vAlign=center width="9%" height=30>


</TD><TD vAlign=center width="15%" height=30>


</TD><TD vAlign=center width="28%" height=30>


</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center width="19%" height=49>Bullet Weight


</TD><TD vAlign=center width="10%" height=49>Powder


</TD><TD vAlign=center width="9%" height=49>Charge


</TD><TD vAlign=center width="12%" height=49>Velocity


</TD><TD vAlign=center width="9%" height=49>Energy


</TD><TD vAlign=center width="15%" height=49>Group Size


</TD><TD vAlign=center width="28%" height=49>Remarks


</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center width="19%" height=49>350gr


</TD><TD vAlign=center width="10%" height=49>IMR4320


</TD><TD vAlign=center width="9%" height=49>73gr


</TD><TD vAlign=center width="12%" height=49>2373fps


</TD><TD vAlign=center width="9%" height=49>



</TD><TD vAlign=center width="15%" height=49>



</TD><TD vAlign=center width="28%" height=49>



</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center width="19%" height=49>350gr


</TD><TD vAlign=center width="10%" height=49>IMR4320


</TD><TD vAlign=center width="9%" height=49>73gr


</TD><TD vAlign=center width="12%" height=49>2329fps


</TD><TD vAlign=center width="9%" height=49>



</TD><TD vAlign=center width="15%" height=49>



</TD><TD vAlign=center width="28%" height=49>custom crimp groove


</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center width="19%" height=49>400gr


</TD><TD vAlign=center width="10%" height=49>IMR4320


</TD><TD vAlign=center width="9%" height=49>73gr


</TD><TD vAlign=center width="12%" height=49>2266fps


</TD><TD vAlign=center width="9%" height=49>



</TD><TD vAlign=center width="15%" height=49>



</TD><TD vAlign=center width="28%" height=49>



</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE borderColor=#f95502 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=5 width=624 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=center height=219>
For the .416 Taylor with a 400 grs bullet you can use 63 grains of N140 as starting load. Preferred COL for this is 2.525 inches.

As reloader of wildcat cartridges you are certainly aware of watching pressure signs and other things related on load developed. Good luck, and let me hear how you have done with the .416 Taylor & N140

Nammo Lapua R & D


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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Last edited by kaytod; 07-24-2010 at 07:14 PM.
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  #5  
Old 07-24-2010, 07:18 PM
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Once again from the 416 page. I credit them for the information. I have no idea how they will do in any other persons rifle. As with any data it is left to your judgement.

Todd



<TABLE borderColor=#4d6302 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=4 width=623 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=446>

I have some load data for the .416 Taylor which I hope can be usefull:
These are Max loads or very close too, so work up from 10% less
.458 resized cases and standard primers vere used. AOL was within 3,307" or 84 millimeters.

</TD><TD vAlign=center width="24%" height=446>
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="29%" height=446>
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=446>
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="12%" height=446>
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=39>Grains
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="24%" height=39>Bullet
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="29%" height=39>Powder
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=39>Grains
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="12%" height=39>fps
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>300
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="24%" height=30>Barnes X
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="29%" height=30>Norma 202
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>80.0
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="12%" height=30>2750
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>300
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="24%" height=30>Barnes X
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="29%" height=30>Vihtavuori N140
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>82.0
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="12%" height=30>2750
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>400
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="24%" height=30>Hornady RN
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="29%" height=30>Norma 202
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>73.0
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="12%" height=30>2380
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>400
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="24%" height=30>Hornady RN
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="29%" height=30>Vihtavuori N140
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>76.0
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="12%" height=30>2400
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>400
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="24%" height=30>Hornady RN
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="29%" height=30>Vihtavuori N150
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>77.0
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="12%" height=30>2410
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=5 width=623 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=center width="22%" height=144>
Rifle is a Douglas barrel on a Sako action

</TD><TD vAlign=center width="26%" height=144>
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=144>
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=144>
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=144>
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center width="22%" height=30>Bullet Type
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="26%" height=30>Bullet Weight
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>Powder
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>Charge
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>Velocity
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center width="22%" height=30>Barnes X
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="26%" height=30>300gr
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>IMR4895
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>75.0gr
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>2574
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center width="22%" height=30>Barnes X
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="26%" height=30>300gr
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>IMR4895
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>78.0gr
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>2710
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center width="22%" height=30>Barnes X
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="26%" height=30>300gr
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>IMR4895
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>80.0gr
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>2752
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center width="22%" height=46>

</TD><TD vAlign=center width="26%" height=46>

</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=46>

</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=46>

</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=46>

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center width="22%" height=30>Barnes X
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="26%" height=30>350gr
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>IMR4895
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>75.0gr
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>2520
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center width="22%" height=30>Barnes X
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="26%" height=30>350gr
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>IMR4895
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>78.0gr
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>2574
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center width="22%" height=30>Barnes X
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="26%" height=30>350gr
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>IMR4895
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>80.0gr
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>2619
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center width="22%" height=46>

</TD><TD vAlign=center width="26%" height=46>

</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=46>

</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=46>

</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=46>

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center width="22%" height=30>Hornady RN
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="26%" height=30>400gr
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>IMR4895
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>73.0gr
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>2335
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center width="22%" height=30>Hornady RN
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="26%" height=30>400gr
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>IMR4895
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>75.0gr
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>2378
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center width="22%" height=30>Hornady RN
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="26%" height=30>400gr
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>IMR4895
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>78.0gr
</TD><TD vAlign=center width="17%" height=30>2460
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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  #6  
Old 07-29-2010, 06:12 AM
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Kaytod, how do you get 75 to 80 gr. of 4895 in the 416 taylor case? Thanks, Daniel Blue
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  #7  
Old 07-29-2010, 02:03 PM
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I don't have a Taylor, however I do have a 408 wildcat I designed and built due to the variations in the Taylor dimensions I recieved upon inqury of multiple sources. The resulting round has bit more case capacity than the Taylor.

I have never used 4895, but worked primarily with RL15. One of the things you will need is a powder drop tube and generally you will be running near 100% densities and some powder compression with RL15 depending on your bullet and load.

My personal wildcat would do 2820fps with Hawk 300gn RT's over 82gns of RL 15, via a 4" drop tube and having slight powder compression. Case expansion was .0025 with once fired Hornady basic brass.

Sorry I could not be of more help

Todd
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  #8  
Old 12-25-2011, 09:28 AM
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I started with a starting load of 66 grains of 4320 and it gave me under 1" groups at 100 yards with the Speer 350 grain bullet, I'm done for now with load development.
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  #9  
Old 12-26-2011, 07:15 AM
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The416 Taylor is an older wildcat that came into existence in 1973. (338 necked up to .416 or 458 necked down to 416.

The Speer 350 mag-Tip is an outstnading big game bullet. my reloads (in 416 remington and Weatherby) have killed everything from whitetail, moose, grizzly bear, and a few cape buffalo. In a 416 Chatfield-Taylor it is really all the rifle one needs (except for elephant and lion). the 350 Mag-tip would be the perfect combination bullet for the 416 Taylor, the 300 grainers lose sectional density and makes it a sort of 375H&H.

The Ken waters article praising the 416 C-T is from 1974 and no 350 grain bullets were than available. I'd suggest 4831 for powder.
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  #10  
Old 12-27-2011, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryS View Post
The416 Taylor is an older wildcat that came into existence in 1973. (338 necked up to .416 or 458 necked down to 416.
There were two cartridges in parallel development at the time ... the 416Taylor and John Wooters' soon after published his 416/338WinMag article. The two are NOT the same, 416Taylor will NOT chamber in a 416/338WinMag.

The more I look at the 416Taylor, the more I start to think that the origins are really a 416/300WinMag with shoulder pushed a tad back to ensure positive headspacing and some trimming. Wouldn't be the first time a cartridge's inspiration has been hidden for reasons best known to the originator.
Cheers...
Con
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  #11  
Old 12-27-2011, 02:11 PM
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the 416 mag was based on the 8mm rem mag, and neither (416 nor 8mm rem mag) were out in 1973 IIrC.

The 416 Chatfield-Taylor can be made from either the 338 or the 458 win, as they are basically the same case head. the Taylor has a body taper like the 338 and that was the starting point. If you are making cases, then many people will size down the 458 to 416 rather than expanding the 338 body. with the 416 rem mag cases (my personal favorite) readily available today, the 416 would require the least forming to make 416 Taylor.
i sort of wish someone woould make the Taylor (ruger tried it). With a wea mag and a rem mag...I really don't need another 416. But a 416 short mag....maybe.
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  #12  
Old 01-23-2012, 05:33 PM
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I read somewhere that CZ will chamber 416 Taylor out of the custom shop.
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  #13  
Old 02-14-2012, 04:31 PM
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Reply to Kaytod

Kaytod, I know this is two years downstream, but I just did contact Nammo Lapua R&D, and they replied that they have never sent out any 416 Taylor data.

Right now, the only Lapua product I am using are Rem6mmBR (Norma), Lapua brass. My cases chamber, with a crush fit, in a 1 in 14 twist Shilen barrel. So, I'm thinking I have the later chamber, but in the earlier slow twist barrel. The downside is I wanted a yote rifle, and this cartridge isn't suited to a repeater CRF Mauser Rifle, no matter who makes the cases.
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Old 02-14-2012, 08:04 PM
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thank you Carpooler,

If you read the above post, the data was taken from the 416 Taylor webpage which to my knowledge in now offline. The Lapua data is not mine but quoted from the afformentioned webpage.
The quote credited to Lapua/ Vit was part of the data I copied for my own research on the 416 Taylor before creating my own wildcat.

sorry if I confused anyone.
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  #15  
Old 03-10-2012, 08:43 PM
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Behind Door Three is

Hi Kaytod, I spoke with a retired ATK exec, last week, and he says that RL 15 is 'THE POWDER", for this app., in factory loadings. It's not as temp. sensitive as some on this forum think.
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Old 03-12-2012, 12:03 PM
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Varget would also be an excellent powder for the 416 Taylor-- it's a little faster than RL-15, but the Taylor is a little smaller (more efficient) than the 416 Remington. Plus, Varget is VERY temperature insensitive, so one load could be developed for Africa or Alaska.
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  #17  
Old 01-10-2013, 04:35 PM
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non canister R-15

My ATK source specified, that they use, non canister R-15. I just picked up a lb. of Alliant R-15, and will get to work on some N.O.S. 410 gr. Woodleigh Solids. My rifle was just finished up a week before I left for the RSA on May 2nd. I had to take the barreled action to ICE in Spokane, with a scribed caliber engraving, in the white. Between the ICE trip, and departure, I had it blued, and restamped with a roto engraver, to 10.6 x 375 Ruger. I printed up this nomenclature on labels, and glued them onto Hornady flat stock boxes, with Franklin Arsenal plastic bottoms. This got me through the S.A.P. 50 inspection at R.M. Tombo airport in Jo'berg. My computer says that a 330 grain bullet is best for these Taylor class wildcats. My Mauser M-98's magazine is extended to take 3.5" O.A.L. cartridges. So I can load up to the 450 gr. Woodleigh solids.

There are two crimp regimens. One is for the old 416 Rigby, and the other is for the 416 Rem. Mag.. I can use the Rigby cannelures, but my Speer 416 cal. 350 gr. Mag Tips, are actually cannelured for the Remmies. I calculated 2400 fps. would give max penetration, and thats where I stopped working up loads, for the 350 gr. Mag. Tips. My P.H. postulated that he wouldn't go for using this load on D.G., but I took a Gnu, and a silver medal Cape Kudu, with them. It is really close to the old .400 Jeffery, but not as powerful as the larger 404 Jeffery.

Recently, I traded cases with a gentleman from Cody, Wyo. who is into Newtons. He wildcatted a 2.5 inch 416 Newton, and my 2.6" case with a full half inch neck and more case taper, has exactly the same capacity. A wildcatted Newton with the Rigby's half inch long neck, would be a tad longer, but could be started off, using a $28 set of Lyman 416 Rigby reloading dies. These need the sizer trimmed back .300+ inches, in a lathe, with C-6 Carballoy tooling, but the seater will work right out of the orange box. The Newton doesn't give you a full half inch long neck, so you will need to improvise to be able to use the Rigby dies. It will be really close to 2.6 inches long, with the Rigby's half inch long neck.

These Ruger cases are real sleepers. Cody Chrono'd 458 Lott velocities out of a std. 2.5 inch long Ruger case opened up to 45 caliber. His shoulders are 23 deg. and mine are 26 degrees, with almost no body taper, and my length is 0.030 of an inch, under the 458 win. mags, so a 458 Winnie Mag, can't chamber. All in all, his has just a bit more capacity than mine. And I think a 458 Win. Mag. will accidentally chamber in his wildcat.

I'm guessing that his .416 Newton will break 2600 fps. with the Speer 350 Mag Tips, if he can work in a full half inch long neck. On paper, mine tops out at 2580 fps. I believe Remington topped out their 416 Rem. Mag. at 2400 fps, with a 400 gr. bullet, so a re-chambered Mauser military M-98 wouldn't develop bottom bolt lug abutment, set back. Both his 416 Newton, and my 10.6 x 375 Ruger, leave more steel in our respective receivers, at this critical point.

So good luck with your work ups.
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