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  #1  
Old 12-08-2010, 04:41 AM
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Go Ackley Improved, Forget the magnum rifle cartridges!


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Are there any youngsters out there familiar with any of the Ackley Improved cartridges? I currently use 22-250 Remington Ackley Improved, 257 Roberts Ackley Improved, 7mm Mauser Ackley Improved, 30-06 Springfield Ackley Improved all are close the magnums velocities, superior accuracy with less powder cheap dreamweaver and the same end result. Don’t let them die, stick with the 30-06 Springfield classic case design and leave the nuclear magnums in the gun stores!

Last edited by fzgorum; 12-14-2010 at 07:15 AM.
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  #2  
Old 12-08-2010, 04:51 AM
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Just wait until the Nuclear Magnum Ackley Improved cartridges come out!
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  #3  
Old 12-08-2010, 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by fzgorum View Post
Are there any youngsters out there familiar with any of the Ackley Improved cartridges? I currently use 22-250 Remington Ackley Improved, 257 Roberts Ackley Improved, 7mm Mauser Ackley Improved, 30-06 Springfield Ackley Improved all are close the magnums velocities, superior accuracy with less powder and the same end result. Donít let them die, stick with the 30-06 Springfield classic case design and leave the nuclear magnums in the gun stores!
I'm only 60, but having owned most of those in the standard versions, I am not sure why I need to "improve" any of them.
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  #4  
Old 12-08-2010, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by shane256 View Post
Just wait until the Nuclear Magnum Ackley Improved cartridges come out!
you can only put so much pressure in a gun, these big case mags really dont do anything but burn alot of powder and erode throats. take for instance the 264 mag or the 7mm mag, the case is to big for the bullet, overbore! a 280 ACKLEY IMPROVED WILL DO ANYTHING A 7MM. REM. MAG WILL DO WHILE USING LESS POWDER. it is way more efficient, a big case doesnt mean anything, you can only put so much pressure behind the bullet. look at the 264 mag, bigg azz case, doesnt do anything a 270 wont do using a lot less powder and a shorter barrel. yeah the big cased, small bullet mags look cool, but do they really do anything but burn alot of powder and eat up barrels? NO!!! I have a 300 ultra mag., junk!!! with a 220gr bullet it gets about 3000fps, my 338 win mag with a 225 will get that same velocity using about 25grs less powder with a 5gr. heavier bullet. DONT BUY INTO THE HYPE!! DO YOUR RESEARCH, look at the balistics tables, and your loading data. these big mags arent all they claim to be. if you dont reload and dont care about powder burn or barrel life, there too is a ultra mag for you. JMO.
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  #5  
Old 12-08-2010, 05:50 AM
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Gents, I hate to be the harbinger of logic here, but the case design is only part of the end result, which is to apply pressure to a projectile, such that it is forced down a rifled tube and propelled toward a distant target. Any cartridge (firing a bullet of a given diameter and weight) that creates greater velocity, does so by applying more pressure, or similar pressure, for a greater length of time. Whether the case is a 110 year-old 30-'06, a WSM or an "Improved" design, they all act as gas seals for the pressure being generated. The amount of powder used, relatively speaking, is of nominal interest, or cost, as well.

All that really matters is how much pressure is created (and your gun is subjected to) for the velocity that is obtained. Attempting to villainize one cartridge design, or laud another, is to ignore the basic principles of internal ballistics. If the gun you choose shoots the bullets you prefer, at the velocity you are seeking, then it is a fine gun, indeed, and needs not be defamed or promoted.
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  #6  
Old 12-08-2010, 08:35 AM
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I've kind of gone the other way and tend to like the smaller, gentler stuff now. .250 Savage, .35 Rem, .30-30, et al.

Still hunt with a belted mag when the urge strikes though

To each his own......
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  #7  
Old 12-08-2010, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by fzgorum View Post
Are there any youngsters out there familiar with any of the Ackley Improved cartridges? I currently use 22-250 Remington Ackley Improved, 257 Roberts Ackley Improved, 7mm Mauser Ackley Improved, 30-06 Springfield Ackley Improved all are close the magnums velocities, superior accuracy with less powder and the same end result. Don’t let them die, stick with the 30-06 Springfield classic case design and leave the nuclear magnums in the gun stores!

I like being 68yrs old and learned alot along the way. I have a 222AI,(2)223AI,243AI,(2)6RemAI,(2)280AI. My first wildcat was a 7x57AI also had a 22-250AI,6x250AI,30-06AI etc. and I own afew custom in standard calibers.

I don't find my Ackley chamber rifles giving better groups over my other customs. I also think building a custom AI today may not give that much gain in velocity over a custom in the parent caliber or a mag caliber if comparing say the 7x57AI to a 7x57/7mag or 30-06AI to a 30-06/300mag.

Too many option in selecting the barrel/chamber/bullets/rifling. When Ackley did the 30-06AI they compare it to a 300H&H and when Speer published the Wildcat Manual from the 50's they had the pressure for the 7x57AI around 60K psi and they used 5/6gr more powder over the 7x57.

I'm not much into equal pressure for the Ackley calibers as some are and if you look at Hodgdon data for the 280AI their over spec on pressure. I got a new 284 this year and found this on the 6br site

New Interest in the .284 Winchester
For many years, the "original" .284 Winchester lived in the shadow of the smaller 6.5-284. That is all changing. Today there is great interest in the .284 Win. Charles Ballard used a 'straight .284' recently to win the 2008 F-Class Nationals convincingly. With its short, stubby case, and rebated rim, the .284 Winchester is a very efficient cartridge. With the latest high-BC 7mm bullets, the original .284 Winchester is proving tough competition for its 6.5-284 offspring. And now, with the introduction of Reloder 17, the .284 Win is capable of driving 180gr VLDs at nearly 3000 fps, a speed that once demanded a short magnum (or bigger) case.

then look at this http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek095.html

Last edited by old roper; 12-08-2010 at 12:01 PM.
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  #8  
Old 12-08-2010, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by broom_jm View Post
If the gun you choose shoots the bullets you prefer, at the velocity you are seeking, then it is a fine gun, indeed, and needs not be defamed or promoted.
+1 very well said
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  #9  
Old 12-08-2010, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by TMan View Post
I'm only 60, but having owned most of those in the standard versions, I am not sure why I need to "improve" any of them.
+1 to that.

The AI's get most of their velocity increase by higher pressures anyway. You can do that with the new double base powders without reaming your chamber.

Now that I'm past 60 I'm begining to wonder what my kids will be doing with my rifles after I'm gone. I hear them saying..."Dad has this xxxAI, I don't reload, who's gonna buy that?"
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  #10  
Old 12-08-2010, 05:35 PM
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Everybody makes a big fuss about how hard it is to sell a wildcat rifle, but go looking to buy one, and you'll find THAT...is even more difficult! It's like owning a piece of collectible artwork; it may be a niche market, but there is almost always a buyer, especially in this day and age, with the internet and all its wonders of mass merchandising.
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  #11  
Old 12-08-2010, 05:50 PM
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The best reason to get one is that if you want one, you won't rest until you get one... so make your self happy.



If you don't want one, don't complain about someone else's pleasure.
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  #12  
Old 12-08-2010, 06:09 PM
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+++++1. Tom W. - WELL SAID!
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  #13  
Old 12-09-2010, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by broom_jm View Post
Everybody makes a big fuss about how hard it is to sell a wildcat rifle, but go looking to buy one, and you'll find THAT...is even more difficult! It's like owning a piece of collectible artwork; it may be a niche market, but there is almost always a buyer, especially in this day and age, with the internet and all its wonders of mass merchandising.
Sounds like a rationalization I'd tell my wife, but would not really believe.

That 30-06 or 30-30 is going to sell faster and at a better price (relative to what you have in the rifle) than a 30-06AI or a 30-30AI. I'd be open to any tangible proof otherwise, but I've seen wildcats and AI's sitting on Gunbroker for weeks without any bids. Folks have reasonable doubts about the rifle, who did the rechambering and how it all came out. Plus you are selling to reloaders only.

WOuld suppose a 9.3 BS made by Mr. Siske would be an exception.
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  #14  
Old 12-09-2010, 06:45 PM
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Sounds like a rationalization I'd tell my wife, but would not really believe.

That 30-06 or 30-30 is going to sell faster and at a better price (relative to what you have in the rifle) than a 30-06AI or a 30-30AI. I'd be open to any tangible proof otherwise, but I've seen wildcats and AI's sitting on Gunbroker for weeks without any bids. Folks have reasonable doubts about the rifle, who did the rechambering and how it all came out. Plus you are selling to reloaders only.

WOuld suppose a 9.3 BS made by Mr. Siske would be an exception.

Good gunsmith have a client list for resale of his rifles and thats how I'll sell my rifles and if their factory he'll sell them on gunbroker or one of his customers might want a action instead of the complete rifle.
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  #15  
Old 12-09-2010, 06:50 PM
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I have to confess, the only wildcat barrel I own that I did not have built is a 30 Herrett Contender. However, I will also say that I don't intend to sell any of the wildcat guns I own, so I have no worries about what they're worth or how difficult it might be to find a buyer.
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  #16  
Old 12-09-2010, 07:03 PM
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Ackley seems to make a difference, but is the cost worth the improved velocity? Shorter barrel life may not be a big concern to folks who change firearms like underware, but it is a big deal to the rest of us who would rather die than sell a gun. the widcats have always brought the best rounds to life and continue to keep the garage gunsmith alive. All respect to the Ackley but i have plenty of kills without improving.
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  #17  
Old 12-09-2010, 07:08 PM
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I'v toyed around with AI my 30-30, but its just a AE trapper, no point really. I wouldnt even care if my 170 grain bullets were only leaving the barrel at 1500 fps, just dont matter when everyhting within 50 yards.

I could see why itd be nice to AI an '06 or .280, but if i were to get another .30 to go with my 30-30 itd have to be a .300 H&H. just another option i guess.
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  #18  
Old 12-09-2010, 07:08 PM
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C'mon, Andy, there's always room for improvement..
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  #19  
Old 12-09-2010, 07:13 PM
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roll tide maybe the only reson i agreee
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  #20  
Old 12-10-2010, 04:28 AM
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Originally Posted by BarkBuster20 View Post
I'v toyed around with AI my 30-30, but its just a AE trapper, no point really. I wouldnt even care if my 170 grain bullets were only leaving the barrel at 1500 fps, just dont matter when everyhting within 50 yards.

I could see why itd be nice to AI an '06 or .280, but if i were to get another .30 to go with my 30-30 itd have to be a .300 H&H. just another option i guess.
In an interesting twist of irony, the action of your model 94 would appreciate the reduced case thrust from an AI cartridge a lot more than the bolt action a 30-'06 or .280 would almost certainly be chambered in. Also, the older, more tapered case designs of the 30/30 and 300H&H benefit quite nicely from being fire-formed to have straighter walls, as well as from the positive headspace the 40 degree shoulder provides.

The two cartridges you would AI don't need it nearly as much (if any cartridge "needs" to be improved) as the two you'd leave alone. To each his own, I suppose, but it really helps to look at the cartridge you're contemplating and then understand how the work P.O. Ackley did has changed and shaped modern cartridge design.
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