20 or more years ago, my dad was making 45 Auto cases from .30-06 cases for use in TC Contender barrels. The TC when loaded with rather warm 45 Auto loads was hard on 45 ACP brass not to mention being “self opening” until the locking bolt spring was replaced. This was specific target shooting and not for general use.

Gunsmith David White (Assassin on the Beartooth board) was discussing making a 357 Maximum rimless bolt rifle on his forum and I was wondering if anyone here had made up a bolt rifle in 357 Magnum or Maximum. I know someone on the Beartooth board has posted on 44 Magnum rimless cases for use in the Ruger lever action rifles.
With a tapered mandrel it would be easy to open 223 cases to cylinders and then run them through a file trim die. Case forming would be quick and easy. I have no particular use for a rifle in 223 so I pass right by them at the gun shows. I am a big fan of the 357 Maximum and this is an intriguing idea.

My mind is not working at the moment and I forgot to work from the same size canvas so my rimless maximum case is too small in the drawing from RCBS Load.
I put the 44 Auto Mag or rimless 44 Mag for fun. This would be an easy to set up bolt rifle for the 357 Maximum.

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slim

One of our past mods, Contender, had a similar project. I made him a tapered expander.

Can't remember the exact details or what became of it. Should be a neat project.

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MikeG

My wife and I shoot a 21” 357 Maximum barrel on one of our Tc frames. This is an accurate cartridge with light recoil even when shooting the 200-grain bullets. Cast or jacketed bullets are quite capable deer and pig loads and any reasonable range for a walking around, offhand rifle. I had not given much thought to a bolt rifle until David mentioned he had done this.

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slim

You can use LC 223 brass for the 357 Rimless, but what are you planning on headspacing off of? I had the similar idea but again ran into problem with headspace and trashed the idea. You can blow the the 223 case straight and then trim back accordingly but again the headspace and reamer will be very hard to duplicate properly. JMO, Adam

http://www.saubier.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11671
Here is the thread that started it all.

You could just headspace off the case mouth, like the 30 carbine does. I think David was using 222 Rem Mag parent brass, if I'm not mistaken.

5.6x50..........357 long-as-ya-want...

I figured the extractor from a Ruger MII combined with the case mouth would hold it fine.
This would be a straight case.
The 30 Carbine is tapered .030” and that helps it some.
The 400 Whelen was tapered .025” and then had a shoulder .018” and those who used it in its day did not have head space problems.

It is a fun winter afternoon thought to have a 357 Maximum bolt gun.

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slim

A bit off in dimentions, and semi-rimmed, but when I couldn't get .351WSL cases, made them from .357max. cases. Of course, a bolt gun wouldn't have the pressure limitations of those old blow-back Winchesters and you'd not really need (or want) the semi-rim.

This was how the Maximum was developed in the first place and explains why the original RCBS Maximum dies were such a tight fit on the Federal and Remington cases. Cut the 5.6x50R off just above the shoulder and resize and you have the Maximum. The rimless 5.6x50 Magnum can be done the same way. A bit expensive though.
A .223 cut off at the shoulder makes an ideal rimless .360 Dan Wesson.

One could just neck-up the 7.62X39 m/m to .357.

Davers,

A guy down in your old stomping grounds has done exactly that, creating the 358 Gremlin for use as a deer hunting cartridge in Indiana. However, that does not give you a straight-walled cartridge, which I think is the intent of the OP. David White (ASSASSIN) is working on a 222 Remington blown out to a straight-walled configuration that basically makes it a 357 Super Maximum. It exceeds factory 35 Remington numbers by a couple hundred feet per second.

Sounds Good! I know the .222 Remington has been necked-up to 6 mm, .25 cal. & also .30 caliber. So why not a .35 Caliber.

Back in the 90's, I had JGS to make up the reamers and go-no go guages for my 9x39 JAG. Despite the name, it was designed for using 357 inch bullets. Ballistically; its in between the 357 Mag. and the 357 Max., I intended to put it into a Ruger Mini 30 but never got that far with it. But rechambering 357 Magnum barrels in singleshot NEF rifles makes a really hot round out of it. BE EXTREMELY CAREFULL when trying to ream an already chambered rifle. You can easilly mess up .

Could you use the .357 Max case if you turned down the rim into a semi-rimless type similar to the .444 Marlin? I fooled around with this idea a little a few years ago, but it went out the window when I could no longer get lathe time.

Regards,
Gene

I've thouht of it before, but I just knecked the 7.62X39 down to accept 357 bullets. JGS made the reamers and guages for me. But now that the Remington 6.8 SPC brass is available, I'm thinking of also trying it with that case with a small shoulder.

Id really be interested in a 35 caliber in the 39mm case for use in the AR platform. I had read somewhere (when I was shooting a maximum) the the case was made from the 3rd draw of a 223 run. Whatever that means, but I think for sure that one could make workable brass form the 223 or even 204. But Remington makes brass for the max so its moot. As William said, a tapered expander through the case of either and trim, you should have a wonderful little 35 cal that kills outside its paper ballistics that can work through anything that can hold the pressures of the max. Through a closed breech rifle length barrel, the old max will step on factory 35 remington heels. Almost. A light AR with 10 rounds of rimless 35 caliber bullets in the 170 to 180 grain range would be a heck of a deer and varmit platform. Anyone that has shot armadillos, crows or coyotes with a 357 maximum with 125-158 grain bullets can attest to the damage done by this little round.

Have you looked at the old Winchester 351 Self Loading cartidge ? It may just be what you're looking for.

The .351SL has a .410" rim and is 1.38" long.
The problem with a .357 Maximum Rimless in an AR platform is that there is nothing to headspace on but the case mouth. It's easy to make; simply cut off a 5.6x50 Magnum at the shoulder and resize and you pretty much have it. A much better option, if it can be done, would be to expand the 6.8 SPC brass to .35 caliber and use .357 SIG or 9x25mm Dillon dies. A shorter version of this wildcat uses 10mm Magnum brass and is basically a .35 caliber version of the .338 Spectre.

That never proved to be too much of an impediment to the original straight-walled pistol case in a semi-auto rifle; the 30 Carbine. Although, it should be pointed out that overall case length is very critical for that cartridge to function reliably, as would be the case with a 357Max-Rimless. Then again, rimmed cases aren't AR-friendly, as a rule.

I've often wondered how difficult it would be to make a 358 run in an AR-10...seems like it would be pretty easy, since that action is designed expressly for the 308 case. And yet, I've never heard of it being done. It would be the modern-day, stepped up equivalent of the 35 Remington and absolutely ideal for those who like to tip-toe through the swamps looking for Bambi or BooBoo. I guess it would be pretty heavy to carry around all day, though.

True, but the .30 Carbine tapers down .020" from base to mouth. A rimless .357 Max would have no taper.
A .358 Win AR-10 should be a matter of just replacing the barrel and would be wicked.