» Advanced

Go Back   Shooters Forum > Rifle and Rifle Cartridges > Wildcat Cartridges
Register FAQ Members List Donate Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-20-2011, 08:41 AM
James Gates's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Old Town, Florida
Posts: 2,435
Gates 44 Mad Max (44 Mag Max)


Registered Users do not see the above ad.


Sometime back we worked on a simple wildcat for making the 44Mad Max (44 Mag Max). The reamer is from JGS in Oregon (sp)
We even reworked some Marlin 336's with 44 mag barrels. The rifle we did most of the work on was NEF 44 Mag's
We first used 444 Marlin brass and then settled on 356 Winchester brass. With that brass there was no inside nech reaming.....just fireform and trim.
We now lnow that CH has reloading dies marked 44 Mad Max. The 44 Mad Max uses the same bullets as the 44 Mag....the heavy ones are best.
Regards, James
__________________
Dixie Slugs of Old Town Hammock, Florida
"Home of the Dixie Terminator Slug"
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-20-2011, 10:32 AM
The Troll Whisperer (Moderator)
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 19,762
For anyone wondering..............

Mr. Gates has special status on the board as one of the first Moderators and has worked with Marshall Stanton, board owner, on bullet styles and chamberings. He is allowed to post of his Dixie slugs and any other developments.

James - have you run these over a chronograph and have exterior ballistics data to talk about?
__________________
NRA Benefactor Member
NRA Certified Police Firearms Instructor
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NAHC Life Member

"Firearms only have two enemies - rust and politicans" author unknown
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-20-2011, 03:09 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mooresville, IN
Posts: 9,020
What is the trim-to length of the 44 Mag Max?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-21-2011, 02:25 AM
James Gates's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Old Town, Florida
Posts: 2,435
I suppose Marshall (Beartooth Bullets) and I do go back some years. The date i have on the design of the .416X2" Beartooth is Jan 1. 1990....and that was after we did the work for the reamer. There was also the .375 Beartooth we worked on. About that time the .44 Mad Max (Mag. Max) was developed. The sad part is all of these were requested by posters, but they never followed through. I was on CH page looking for some dies and saw they had dies for the .44 Mad Max.....so someone followed through?
Now.....I bought all the bullet making equipment from John Anderson when he shut down.....Magna Casters, full blown Stars with air and heater, and all the molds. That are sitting in the shop. Rather than making bullets on the ...I have given reloaders the spec sheets on the bullets. I have no plans to make bullets as long Marshall is. There are various reasons for that.
I have just posted links the Beartooth Bullets and Cast Boolits on Dixie's forum. I have not talked to Marshall in some time....just busy and time slips by indeed. I did try to place a call a couple of times last week to discuss some work I am doing on the Ruger Ols Army and the Kirst cylinder in 45 Colt. I could not get through to him though.
There are lots of thing Marshall and I discussed (cussed) years ago, but time goes on.
I will always support Beartooth as I can.....Regards, James
__________________
Dixie Slugs of Old Town Hammock, Florida
"Home of the Dixie Terminator Slug"
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-21-2011, 07:50 AM
The Troll Whisperer (Moderator)
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 19,762
James - I'm sure he will be glad to hear from you any time - just keep trying!
__________________
NRA Benefactor Member
NRA Certified Police Firearms Instructor
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NAHC Life Member

"Firearms only have two enemies - rust and politicans" author unknown
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-21-2011, 09:40 AM
James Gates's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Old Town, Florida
Posts: 2,435
To answer the question on length.........Trim length at 1.80" with a water capacity of 52.5 grs = 36.5 grs of IMR powders. You can run all this through your ballistic program. The Expansion Ratio of an 18" barrel is right at 18. The reamer is set up to have a .400" freebore so that all lengths of 430" cast bullet can be used (unlike a standard .444 chamber).
JGS has the reamers.......Regards to Everyone!.... James
Attached Thumbnails
Gates 44 Mad Max (44 Mag Max)-44madmax.jpg  
__________________
Dixie Slugs of Old Town Hammock, Florida
"Home of the Dixie Terminator Slug"
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-21-2011, 11:23 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mooresville, IN
Posts: 9,020
How do you wind up with a cartridge that has a .514" rim, when the parent case, the 356 Winchester, starts out at .506"? I'm trying to think about whether or not that would matter a whole lot, as long as the thickness of the rim was precise.

Other than that, it looks interesting and might be of no small interest to Indiana hunters looking to maximize their 44RM barrels. Rather than ream out to the wimpy 445SM, you can go all the way up to the MAD MAX! I like it!

Just out of curiosity, what velocity range were you getting from the H&R and 265gr loads?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-21-2011, 05:29 PM
James Gates's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Old Town, Florida
Posts: 2,435
The original spec drawing of reamer was set up with the rim diameter of the 44 mag/444 M.
It was an afterthought of the 356 Winchester. I thought at one time to have the rim cutter on the reamer ground down. However the NEF and TC already have a rim cut in the chamber. So far I have had no reports of the ejector/extractor overiding the 356 Rim. When in doubt, just use the 444 brass. As for vrlocity....I have given the needed data for all to run it through their ballitic program based on their barrel length...or use Hornady'd ballistic deal.....James
__________________
Dixie Slugs of Old Town Hammock, Florida
"Home of the Dixie Terminator Slug"
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-25-2011, 01:26 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 987
Hello Mr. Gates

I didn't know about your 44 mad max, when I did up my 44 MarSh. We're only .2" apart. But did you know that the new Hornady 444 lever revolution cases, now out as components, are only 52mm long? Their brag is that you can reload them with their Hornady New Dimension dies. They felt I could reload my own 51mm long 44 MarSh, with them too. I don't know about your Mad Max, but it might simplify things just to trim back these new 444M lever revolution cases to 1.8" lengths and see if their sleeve dies would work on something that short. I agree, that with a single shot pistol, it would make more sense than blowing out and trimming the 356 Win. BB cases. I have to use them in my M-94 top ejector, as the flanged Marlin case doesn't like the Winnie's extractor. I don't have your free-bore, but my custom 44 slug has a smaller diameter, with a bore riding band ahead of it's full diameter Keith bearing band, crimped in front of the case mouth. Trimming these new Hornady bastardized 444M cases, may just be the ticket to revive your Mad Max. My blown out .44-356's look to be developing small cracks at their mouths after a couple of firings. I'll need to start annealing, I guess. The other difference, is that my gunsmith used his stock 444 Marlin reamer, and just short chambered my thirty thirty barrel, that I had specifically re-cut and re-rifled for this custom bullet. This saved the expense of a custom reamer, but I can't use regular 44 Mag. ammo, either.
What bothers me about the lever revolution 444's, is that Hornady is peddling a shorty cased round with a pointy bullet, that has to rattle over an extra long, read correct, 444 Marlin chamber, which can't help with long range accuracy. My wildcat, at least, is properly chambered, for it's 51mm long cases. My next trip to the range, will let me try some component gummy tipped 265's. in my carbine. More bullet jump, but no exposed chamber wall, ahead of my cases. Now that I know about your Mad Max, I'll get back to you on how they work.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-25-2011, 06:49 PM
Griz's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 786
Hello James

You're full of interesting surprises. I like the looks of that cartridge a lot. Has it ever been used in a Model 92? What barrel twist do you need for best downrange performance from the heavies.

Those Marlin barrels spit heavies sideways.....

Best

Grizz
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-26-2011, 08:25 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 987
Grizz, it's worse than you know

Hello Grizz,
You just can't send in an older Marlin 444, to the factory, to have one of their new barrels installed. They demand that you pay for a new carrier,and its fitment, along with the barrel job. They won't send a rifle back with the old carrier. So, it's much cheaper to just buy a new ballard twist 444M rifle. Unless, you have the early rifle with no cross bolt safety and are left handed, IMO, old 444M's are a lost cause, for heavy bullets. The 'quick', one in twenty, twist came out in the late Win. 92's, so the factories all knew about it, and they went with the early 73 black powder twists, anyway. So, you tell me, and we'll both know. Hope this helps, Carpooler
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why has the 7mm Rem Mag downloaded? riley Rifles and Rifle Cartridges 42 03-06-2014 03:45 PM
Win 70 from 300 win mag to 300 H&H Mag Exodus8 Rifles and Rifle Cartridges 21 09-30-2012 05:43 PM
Loading 7mm Rem Ultra Mag Like 7mm Rem Mag chilean-hunter Handloading Procedures/Practices 13 04-18-2012 07:34 PM
Mag vs short mag scottg Rifles and Rifle Cartridges 46 03-02-2009 10:30 AM
357 Super Max... ASSASSIN Wildcat Cartridges 6 02-06-2008 03:59 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:26 AM.

< Contact Us - Shooters Forum - Archive >

 
 

All Content & Design Copyright © 1999-2002 Beartooth Bullets, All Rights Reserved
View Privacy Policy | Contact Webmaster | Legal Information
Website Design & Development By Exbabylon Internet Solutions
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2