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  #1  
Old 07-21-2011, 09:57 AM
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35 brown whelen


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Hello every one have been browsing this forum for a while and had yet to join and post due to the fact that i had little to say that was until i was invited to hunt elk on some private land on the Oregon coast. The problem has arisen that though my 257 bob is more than enough for the local deer and i have heard that more than a few have taken elk with it i do not like the idea of a possible off shot and having to track a wounded animal and then loosing it. So being a some what practical man i have convinced my wife to let me get a new gun since my boy will be getting bob in the near future and i would need one any way. i have settled on the 35 Brown Whelen which i have heard has a few characteristic's that make it a little more difficult to load, and i will need help with the procedure of forming brass and if possible a lists of all the dies i would need. My goal with it is a 225 Nosler Acubond at 2700 fps out of a 22 inch barrel with a 1:12 twist from Pacnor since they list that chamber in the wildcat listing with a Zastava Mauser action and a Boyd's laminate stock and a 2-7 power Leopold scope kind of a tall timber thumper with legs to boot any help or advice would be greatly apreciated as i will not be going this year due to the time it will take to put the rifle together.

Tanks J
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  #2  
Old 07-21-2011, 01:37 PM
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For the 35 Brown Whelen they blown the shoulders forward appr .050" and the dia at the start of the shoulder is wider by appr .020" and case capacity is increased to 76.93 H2o capacity vs 35 Whelen @ 72.63gr H2o.


You would have to make whats called false shoulders and fireform a 30-06 case or 35 Whelen you could do it with a bullet or COW method. And it would be good if you had experience with the above type case forming. Some may just touch the rifling with a bullet from a standard 35 whelen case and that fireform the case using a start load for the 35 Whelen. I like to do the false shoulders use COW method as I don't like using a bullet to fireform IMHO just a waste of a good barrel.

I shoot the 35 Whelen AI has a 24.5" long Kreiger barrel. If you could do 24" barrel you could do the 35 whelen @ 2700fps plus with 225gr AB or 225gr TSX. Well good luck
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  #3  
Old 07-30-2011, 05:32 AM
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LoadData: .35 Brown-Whelen Charge and Load Information/Data for the .35 Brown-Whelen.

30-06 Cylinder Brass for Wildcat and Custom Ammunition

Cylinder brass from R-P with 35 Whelen head stamps has a case length of 2.650 and is straight wall, instead of moving the shoulder forward, move it back, form first then fire instead of fire to form. My favorite 30/06 case is the 280 Remington, the shoulder on the 280 is .051 thousands ahead of the 30/06 shoulder then there are the cases that have been fired in trashy old chambers.

I do not know if the cylinder brass case can be formed with a full length sizer die. Check Hawks for cases.

http://www.rcbs.com/downloads/2010_SpecialOrder.pdf

Midwayuk - RCBS Base Forming Die 35 Brown-Whelen


My favorite die is the forming/trim die, I have a few that cost $90.00+ to avoid spending $160.00+ got a 35 Brown Whelen forming die I would check with Huntington for the availability and cost of new cases.

RCBS Reloading Dies - list | Huntington Die Specialties

Brass Reloading Cases - Bell Bertram CCI Dakota Federal Graf Horneber Hornady Howell Lapua Magtech Norma Weatherby Remington RWS Starline Winchester | Huntington Die Specialties


F. Guffey
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  #4  
Old 07-30-2011, 05:46 AM
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and, no, it would not be necessary to move the shoulder back startig at 2.650, the case can be trimmed first, about forming and trimming, the 35 Brown Whelen case length is 2.450, when forming 30/06 cases to 35 Whelen the case shortens, necking a case up shortens the neck, necking a case down lengthens the neck, and yes, I know it sounds like the neck would thicken when neck down and thinned when necked up, but, those that measure before and after know better.

F. Guffey
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  #6  
Old 08-01-2011, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old roper View Post
For the 35 Brown Whelen they blown the shoulders forward appr .050" and the dia at the start of the shoulder is wider by appr .020" and case capacity is increased to 76.93 H2o capacity vs 35 Whelen @ 72.63gr H2o.


You would have to make whats called false shoulders and fireform a 30-06 case or 35 Whelen you could do it with a bullet or COW method. And it would be good if you had experience with the above type case forming. Some may just touch the rifling with a bullet from a standard 35 whelen case and that fireform the case using a start load for the 35 Whelen. I like to do the false shoulders use COW method as I don't like using a bullet to fireform IMHO just a waste of a good barrel.

I shoot the 35 Whelen AI has a 24.5" long Kreiger barrel. If you could do 24" barrel you could do the 35 whelen @ 2700fps plus with 225gr AB or 225gr TSX. Well good luck
My sentiments as well. There are several loadings available now with at least this type performance. Buffalo Bore, Stars & Stripes and Double Tap all show loads that will meet or exceed this out of the standard .35 Whelen. There's also a new Superformance load at 2900 FPS with a 200gr bullet.
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  #7  
Old 08-02-2011, 07:40 AM
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fgruffy Thanks a million as i under stand you it would be a good idea to just start with 280 rem brass since the the shoulder is .001 longer than the B/W shoulder and it sound like that is acceptable when you are forming wildcat brass. Now for some more questions. Would you say i could get a neck sizing die instead of a full length or would i need to buy a three piece set from RCBS (father in law lives in Orovill home of RCBS and i can get my die at a slight discount if i go in and buy direct. or so i have been told.) and run with it since it sounds like that is all i would have to modify on the case so as to get the proper neck diameter; then fire form to complete the process?Do you have any problems with the neck splitting when you size up the 280 brass? should i get a 30-06 tapered expander to start with then go to the .35 cal expander? Lastly i have heard of guys using squid loads as i have heard them called where they use a small amount of H110 toilet paper or dacron, cream of wheat and either bar soap or canning wax then the fire forming. is that what your talking about Tnhunter and old roper? This will be my first purpose built gun and i don't want to screw it up, not saying i am afraid to try but i want to do it right the first time and my Nosler book says to seat a bullet so that it contacts the lands and use a starting load for the parent case if i did it this way could i use thees loads to get a basic zero for my rifle? sorry for all the questions but i don't know a lot about reloading as my experience is mostly with my 257 bob. Tnhunter i know there are some pretty hot loads for the 35 Whelen as is and most guys that have them love em but i like a 22 inch barrel and the way it points for me and the 225 Nosler Acubond with its relitivly hi B.C and S.D pluse its heavy construction looks to be a good elk load and with the B/W converson it should be no problem to get the velocity i need, and i am intrigued by the 35 B/W because it is not what most people expect just like me and my old 257 most people haven t heard of it and think it is some new round just like the whelen for some reason if it doesn't have MAGNUM in its name it isn't good enough for any thing but the lightest of game and i like having a good tool that will surprise most mag freaks. Lastly i was going to go with the zastava action but i have been able to buy a mid 90s rem 700 in 270 and since i don't like the way that round kicks it will be getting the new barrel and a new 700c stock if i made a mistake in my understandings please correct me as this project is one i have been wanting to do for quite some time and my little bro who gets to go hunting with out me is getting tired of listening to me talk about this gun and how bad it will put the smack down on his 45/70 thanks again for all your advice it has been enlightening.

J.H
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Last edited by J. habeger; 08-02-2011 at 08:15 AM. Reason: missed a sentence
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  #8  
Old 08-02-2011, 02:26 PM
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go on the web to :

qual - cart.com

they have what you are looking for.
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  #9  
Old 08-03-2011, 06:51 AM
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gordie.
i did look at the qual-cart as well as the Z-hat stuff but decided to go the roll your own way becuase 20 rounds of Q-C brass in 35b/w is 40.00$ and that dose not make sence monatarly to me the way i see it is

300 peices of 35w or 280 rem brass----153.00$
300 Hornady 200grn inter locks---------95.00$
1000 Federal 210 primers---------------17.50$ becuase i all redy have them for my 257 and i will split the cost.
5lbs of reloader 15-----------------------100.00$
Dies. 2 peice RCBS neck sizing----------145.00$

Quiet time at the bench this winter away from the wife and kids.--------------------------priceless

J
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  #10  
Old 08-04-2011, 06:39 AM
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OK now I'm sorry but what about a 9x66 or 358-370 Sako? In other word has it been done or am i getting off track? It looks as if brass would be a big problem or would the extra capacity make it a viable option? Could i theoretically just just use the B/W reamer and run it a little deeper? it looks that if i could do that i would;

1) increase case capacity significantly.
2) have a longer neck for a better purchase on the 225 and heavier bullets.

Would it just be a better all around idea to go with 30-06 basic brass and run with it? Either way it would look as if Z-Hat would be the place to go for brass or Q-C but then i think it would be a true wildcat and if nobody has done it yet it could be called the 35 long Whelen (name makes since to me as its self explanatory.)

Thanks again for all the input like i said I'm a some what practical and the best way to check your self is to as question so there i did it again.

J
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Last edited by J. habeger; 08-04-2011 at 06:47 AM.
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  #11  
Old 08-04-2011, 08:03 AM
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I am building a rifle in 338, when finished it will be a 338/280 Remington, had I gone to an Ackley Improved type reamer it would have been a 338/280 Ackley Improve. Had I started with a 35 Whelen barrel the results would have been the same but I would not have called the chamber a Chuck Hawks or a 35 Brown Whelen.

My opinion: First choice, Cylinder brass with a forming die. Second choice, necking up NEW 280 Remington cases. Third choice, necking up 30/06 cases to 35 Whelen, Brown Whelen.

I first reamed the 338/280 chamber to 338/06, this gives the chamber a length of 2.494, with cylinder brass or 280 Remington cases I can cover all the chamber with the brass case, if I neck up 30/06 cases the case will leave as much as .050 of the chamber not covered with the case AND the same for my 30 Gibbs, the neck on the case after forming shortens .035, the neck on the Gibbs is .217, by starting with longer cases I am able to add .035 thousands to the length of the neck and get .242 neck length,

The additional neck length increases bullet hold, as the thumb rule goes, the bullet should be seated at least one diameter of the bullet? Seating the bullet into the case body cuts down on space for powder etc.. And the 300 Win mag is said to have a short neck, the neck on the 300 Win Mag is .264, .022 longer than the 30 Gibbs neck.

I would not start with 200 cases, I would suggest starting with 20 Cylinder Brass cases from R-P.

I am a big fan of off setting the length of the chamber with the length of the case, problem, finding long cases, again my favorite 30/06 case is the 280 Remington and cases fired in trashy old chambers, manufactures of brass has never considered making brass for those that would know what to do with it until Cylinder brass. And for almost everything else, 7.7 Japanese, 8mm57, 7mm57, 257 Roberts, 308 Winchester there is the 30/06.

F. Guffey
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  #12  
Old 08-04-2011, 08:34 AM
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Forgive, there is the 35 Whelen case, depending on the receiver when fire forming as to technique/method, but fire forming is required and the case will shorten, part of the shoulder will become part of the case body and part of the neck will become part of the shoulder.

F. Guffey
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  #13  
Old 08-04-2011, 03:08 PM
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fgufey i agree with the caliber of length for the bullet seating, and i was told about the 370 sako a couple days ago. It is looking better all the time especially when you want good bullet purchas. Now the 370 sako is 2.59 long over all and the base to shoulder is 2.196 compaired to the 30-06 case of 1.948 and that is a lot of extra volume even more than a gibbs chamber and good neck length to boot. All i think i would have to do woud just neck it down and run with it. Best of both worlds and it all fits in a standard action. The hard part would be geting a die set which is possible as a coustome set which makes the cost the hard part but what after i got them i would be set, so i would be willing to pay for it plus i think it would be cool. Ok i am loosing all praticality here but i think that if i get to do this i want to have somthing i will enjoy as much as my 257 which is a tall order but the chance to finally go after Elk i driving to extremes. now just going to 370 sako is an option bet the loaded amo is far to expensive and the dont reach my target velocity and i like the 35 cal
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Last edited by J. habeger; 08-04-2011 at 03:15 PM.
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  #14  
Old 08-05-2011, 06:37 AM
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was bruoght back to reality last night when my wife asked me how my research was going over couple of beers. And after ten minutes of trying to explain why i need a rocket engine in a pick up i went back to the Whelen A.I. I might give up a little in the speed part but then as she put if i take this thing to Alaska and lose the bullets i could go and buy some factory rounds and quickly adjust my zero and be back in the game. I hate it when she is right but what am i going to do. so i will pick up the dies in a couple of weeks and start with the brass while the action is away for the rebarrel. Thanks a million for all the info it is amazing what you can learn with just a few questions maybe when my daughter hits 12 my boy can get the whelen and i will move up to a 35/375 ruger if the happens lord help me.

J
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