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  #1  
Old 08-26-2011, 10:26 AM
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Question 430 express or 44X06 information


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I just finished a project I started a few years ago. I've taken a 30.06 case and fired formed it to take a .430 bullet. I've got the reamer but not sure what to call this cartridge. I read on one of these forums that someone else have done this also. I would like to chat with him or anybody that has any information about this cartridge;
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  #2  
Old 08-29-2011, 10:28 AM
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Whose Reamers

Don't get me wrong. I would love to find a source for a full diameter 30-06 basic case with a belt. However, the closest I've come, is a blown out 44-356Win.BB. This makes up a semi rimmed case that will take a .430" bullet. I suppose I could solder an extension to get out to 63mm from 51mm, but it wouldn't be a strong case. So my question is; "who is making up these reamers"? Do they have a source for making belted rimless 30-06 length std. diameter cases? You say you have a fifty cal on the ruger case, and now a 44 on a std. 30-06 case. Both of these have real questions attached. I know it may be possible to spin the metal on a brass case back to the head, and get some kind of belt that way. But this seems to be awfully slow, when the 500 Jeffery is already available.
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  #3  
Old 08-29-2011, 03:27 PM
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I you want a belted case, you can use a .240 Weatherby by fire forming the neck and shoulder out straight. I've done this, using a .411 bullet. I got 2500 fps using 265gr custom make bullets. As far as the 44x06, I just make sure the case are 2.500 and headspace off the mouth. Same with the .500x375 Ruger, all the same and headspace off the mouth.

Last edited by bodog; 08-29-2011 at 03:31 PM. Reason: wasn't finished
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  #4  
Old 08-30-2011, 11:57 AM
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Whose reamers

I understand that. It may work if you are only doing single shot rigs. But who cuts these reamers? They may indeed have a source of partially formed basic 30-06 cases that can have belts added. Note, I'm speaking of full diameter 30-06 cases here, not the swaged down 240 Weatherby. Not to beat it into the ground, but both Hornady's custom desk, and myself, think that squeezing a .450 out of the Ruger Basic is really out on the edge. I'm only doing these out of my set of case forming dies, at present. I will need a new chambering reamer, and GO gauge from Dave Kiff, at PT&G, before I do one up and then send three fired cases back to Hornady for a set of Boer 450 F.L. dies. For this one, I'm going to use a cheap 458 Win. short chambered (-0.050") barrel. I will then ream my wildcat chamber, leaving it about -0.030" short of the correct 458 Win. chamber. This way, no one will ever chamber the undersized 458 Winnie in my wildcat's chamber. It's almost a Lott, in a Mauser M-98, without butchering those receivers. And I still have a nice long neck. This begs the question, which rifle actions are you using for these behemoths of yours?
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  #5  
Old 08-30-2011, 02:33 PM
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I'm using 98 actions.
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  #6  
Old 08-31-2011, 12:34 PM
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congrats

hi Bodog,
Congratulations, on using M-98 Mausers. But can you give out the name of the reamer maker who is doing these reamers? He may have a source for unfinished basic 30-06 Brass, that can have a belt put on. The full diameter 06 case head with a belt and a slightly larger rimless profile would be a killer app. in my thinking.
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  #7  
Old 08-31-2011, 04:57 PM
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I think I used JGS Percision. I'll have to check my tool box to be sure. I'll let you know tomorrow. There are many custom reamer makers listed on the net.
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  #8  
Old 09-11-2011, 11:28 AM
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Smile testing 44x06

I got to the range today, here are some results for the 44x06. Hornady 225gr. Flex tip, 50gr. 4198, A.V. 2441 fps

265 gr. Sierra, 55gr. 2015BR, A.V. 1989 fps

225gr. Hornady Flex Tip, 55gr. IMR 4198, A.V. 2605 fps

265gr. Hornady Flex Tip, 50gr. IMR 4198, A.V. 2225 fps.

Recoil no problem, semi heavy with the last two. Moderate flating of the primers. All loads grouped well.
Some just under an inch, largest 1 1/8in.

Judgeing from the primers, I haven't reach max yet. More testing next week.
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  #9  
Old 09-16-2011, 08:15 AM
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You have more Wump

Hi Bodog,
You have more wump! My 44 Marsh,(44-356) only gets 1800 + change, out of my 20 inch Win. M-94 carbine. The short barrel and the extra thick brass of the .307 family of cases, (300 Sav. capacity), limits me to below 2000fps.. Note that the 225 Flex tips are 44 Spec. bullets. The sleeper is their 265 gr. Flex tip. I barely get up into their working range, of 1800fps.. Your longer job, probably shades the 444 Marlin by 250fps. If I do a second Win. 94, i'll use a 24 inch half oct. barrel and will look for 2250fps. But having said that, my 45-70 Guide Gun with a ported 18 inch barrel will still beat both of these in the field. A 400 gr.Speer at 1800+ sure beats the 44 cal. 265 at 2000fps.. Now, your higher velocities may make it a wash. My take is that this 265 Flex Tip makes my carbine a 200 yd. Elk gun. But so is the Guide Gun, when stoked up properly.
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  #10  
Old 09-17-2011, 11:51 AM
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44x06

Checking in my Speer Manual # 8 Bullet energy tables, I see the a 265gr at 2225 fps will produce 2978 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle. I think this cartridge well reach and excide 2500fps. At 2500fps, it will produce 3621 ft. lbs. I looking forward to working up a load with a 300 gr.
The Hornady 225 Flex Tip at 2441 fps produces 2774 ft. lbs.. I'm a long way from max with the 225gr, and I'm thinking it will be somewhere around 2700 fps.. More later. I'll be at the range tomorrow.
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  #11  
Old 09-18-2011, 07:09 AM
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44 spec. means 44 spec working velocities

Bodog, Go onto the Hornady site, and check out what they say about these two flex tip bullets. The 225 will open up at 850fps, MV. The 265 needs 1800fps, MV, to mushroom out. One has a much thinner construction than the other. Can you guess which is which? Depending on how aggressive your barrel is, I wouldn't bet on the 225 gummy even getting out to 250 yds, intact, at the velocities you mention that are possible. And if it does get out there in one piece, I think it's going to be just one great big, explosive, varmint bullet. I haven't messed with these for exactly that reason. They are too lightly constructed for my Marsh's 1850fps MV. I thought they were too long for either of my two 44WCF lever rifles, and only now that I have a new Ruger 44 Spec.flat top, am I warming up to them. So, would you really feel good about using any six shooter bullet in your high powered rifle? You should have a bit more oomph than the 400 Whelan, which was supposed to be the rimless 405 Win., version, for bolt actions.
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  #12  
Old 09-18-2011, 02:46 PM
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more information 44x06

Carpooler, I agree with you about the Hornady 225 gr. Flix tip. I think I'd like to try it out on rockchucks next season. Here's some more tests results.

Hornady 225 gr. Flex tip, 60gr. IMR 4198. A.V. 2755
Recoil: Moderate, Accuracy: Just over 2in. E.S 44.6

Hornady 265 gr. Flex tip, 55gr. IMR 4198. A.V. 2496
Recoil: moderate to heavy, E.S. 67.5
Three shots of the group were over 2500 fps.

Accuracy with the 265gr is excellent. My first round hit the target about 6in from center of the bull at 12 O' clock. The next three bullets hit about 1/2in from the center of the bull at 3 O'clock in a nice triangle group with all holes touching. The last round hit about 3/4in right and down from the three shot group. I'm not sure what happened with the first shot, maybe I wasn't ready
for the recoil, can't say. I had only loaded five rounds of each bullet weight, because I was more interested in velocity than accuracy at this time.
I'll be checking loads with the 300gr. bullet next week, and I might even try some 180gr. just for G.P.
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  #13  
Old 09-23-2011, 06:40 PM
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I have written several articles on both the 44-08 and 44-06 and have done lots of work with both. Nice to see someone else working with these rounds...

My farorite bullets for loading these rounds was the SPEER 270 gr. Gold Dot, Hornadys 265 gr. Flat Point and Hornadys 300 gr. XTP. All three bullets were capable of grouping under an inch on a regular basis using H-4895 powder and Bench Rest primers....

A
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  #14  
Old 09-24-2011, 03:50 AM
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loads using 4895

Hi Assassin,
I haven't tried 4895 is the 44X06, but I've used it a lot with some of my other rifles. What's you starting load using IMR 4895 with a 300gr. Sierria?
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  #15  
Old 09-24-2011, 06:41 AM
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Using H-4895 and the 300 gr. XTP in MY GUN AND MY CHAMBER - I started with 53.0 gr. and worked up from there...

I built several guns around the Remington 700 and built my last one on a Ruger M77. I have killed several hogs with it and loaned it out to friends who have killed deer, hogs, black bear, elk and moose with it...

I keep thinking I might build another one some day but, since I only deer hunt now, I really don't see much use for one....

A
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  #16  
Old 09-30-2011, 06:36 AM
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more on 44x06

Here's more info:
Sierra's .430 180gr bullet, 65gr. IMR 4198, AV: 3021.8 FPS, ES: 62.6
This load grouped poorly, about 5in. at 100yds. I really just wanted to
see how fast the 180gr would go.

Sierra's .430 300 gr. bullert, 50gr IMR 4198, AV: 2332.9 ES: 133.2. The ES seems to be high, may have to go to mag. primers or slower powder.
This load grouped very good, three shots toughing, one shot out about 1/2in., one shot out about 2ins.. Recoil getting up there, but not to bad.
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