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  #1  
Old 08-26-2011, 11:35 AM
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Question .500X375 Ruger


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This is another wildcat I've had a reamer built for. I've got the rifle finishes using a Nor-Pac barrel and a 98 action. I use .500 S&W reloading dies and have loaded 350 gr. and 500gr. bullets. I have yet to fire it. Is there anybody out there that has made this cartridge? I would like to chat with anybody with any information
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  #2  
Old 08-27-2011, 06:29 AM
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This involves cutting the shoulder off and trimming to somewhere in the neighborhood of 2.180" and seating the bullet in what remains of the body? Sounds like a monster. Post a picture if you get a chance.
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  #3  
Old 08-27-2011, 10:29 AM
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Smile .500x375 Ruger

NO, I didn't cut the case off a the shoulder. I fire formed the neck and shoulder out.
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  #4  
Old 08-27-2011, 10:55 AM
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.500x375 Ruger Picture

I'm trying to send picture of the .500x375 Ruger, I hope it works.
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.500X375 Ruger-.500.jpg  
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  #5  
Old 08-27-2011, 03:22 PM
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... ouch ...
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  #6  
Old 08-27-2011, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kludge View Post
... ouch ...
At both ends.
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  #7  
Old 08-27-2011, 04:22 PM
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Why "ouch"

I don't think the round will kick anymore than a .458 with the same bullets (350 and 500gr.) I haven't had a chance to chronograph either load yet, maybe this week.
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  #8  
Old 08-28-2011, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodog View Post
I don't think the round will kick anymore than a .458 ...
Oh, is that all.
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  #9  
Old 08-28-2011, 04:59 PM
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I got doubts about this working

Hi Boddog, I worked with the Hornady Custom desk on a set of case forming dies that brings the 375 Ruger Basic down to my Boer 8 wildcat. I do have a possible 450, that's still in que. But Hornady won't guarantee that it will have enough shoulder to headspace on. The big fifty will jar and smash it's bullets in the magazine, so that you need a good neck and a better roll crimp to hold them in place. I use less taper than the 416 Ruger, and am still at the ragged edge of being able to have enough shoulder for a 458 bullet, to headspace on. Your round looks like something that might as well head space on the bullet nose jammed up against the leade of the riflings. BTW, my 450 dummy case shows a volume half ways in between the 458 Winnie, and the 458 Lott. Yes, the big new Ruger case is really that big. All of my wildcat family cubs, will feed through a stock Mauser M-98 magazine box.
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  #10  
Old 08-28-2011, 09:07 PM
NFG NFG is offline
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Your creation has about the same case capacity as a 50-110 I'm guessing...something in the 100gr H2O range...450 Howel, 450 Watts, 458 Lott size, and you must not have much of a shoulder unless your cases have mighty thin walls and very little case taper.

I looked at the Ruger case for a .510 bullet headspacing on the case mouth but that didn't fly with a crimp so I ended up using a Rigby case for my wildcat.

If you can maintain headspace I think you have a neat toy...and...it will definitely keep you from falling asleep.

I'm working on something similar for use in a Marlin Levergun...0.500" and been playing with a case design program. COL around 2.60" and case length around 2.2 - 2.4" depending on bullet weight and cannelure position.

Let us know how it works out.

Luck
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  #11  
Old 08-29-2011, 04:39 PM
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nice to hear from you Guys

I'm still in the working with loads for .500 and the .44 I may get to the range this week with the cromogragh. I'll keep you informed on my progress.
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  #12  
Old 09-30-2011, 08:34 AM
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shooting the .500X375 Ruger

Well I made it to the range yesterday for my first shooting of the .500X375 Ruger. It was an interesting experiance to say the least.
In loading both bullets, my starting loads were taken from the 8th. edition of the Speer manual for the .458 Win. Mag. My thinking was since the 375 Ruger case was larger, I wouldn't have any problems with pressure. This proved to be true.


Speer 325gr. HP., 74grs. IMR 4060, AV: 1869.4 fps. ES: 423.1 fps.. Clearly, this isn't to right powder for this cartridge. All the bullets hit the target at the same height, but were spread out left to right about 5ins.
Recoil was stiff but manageable.

Hornady 500gr. FP., 74grs. H-335, AV: 2064 fps. I only fired two rounds. Recoil: HEAVY. The reason I only fired two rounds is because the scope hit me between the eyes on the second shot. I can't blame it all on recoil, the pull on the stock is only 13ins., and that's a little short for me.
When shooting off a bench with a rifle this powerfull, it's much better if the stock fit the shooter.

The two shots printed one in. apart, so I feel this is a good load for this cartridge. Most of the dangerous game hunters think around 2000 fps with a 500gr. bullet is just about all you need for any of the most dangerous animals.
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  #13  
Old 10-23-2011, 01:12 PM
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reply to NFG

Back at Ya!
Yes the Ruger case is borderline for a .450 bottleneck. It has to be formed from the cylindrical basic, like Bodog's. It has just about 97 grs. of H2O to it's mouth. But that's in a forming die. The fired case will add a bit. I used an unfired Rem. 458 Win. Mag. case for the comparison. So the published Lott's volume may be a bit high. As it is, I will split the difference between these two factory rounds. I used Herr Schuler's famous 8x68S mag. as a guide for my smaller iderations. But above .416 I have to use a more agressive shoulder, (26deg.), and even less taper than the factory Ruger 416. My case body is 2 inches long, so I will still have a generous neck length. It looks to be a toss up between my tapered .416, and the nearly straight walled .450. The .416 dies are cut a tenth of an inch longer than the Ruger 416 cases, so that I can publish a non conflicting cartridge. The .450 on the other hand, will be cut into a cheap, short chambered (-.050"), .458 Win. Mag. barrel. I figure it will be about .030" shorter than the factory round, and this should prevent any conflicts. So this is a story of two different body tapers, and two different shoulder angles, ( 16deg. vs.26deg.) generating about the same effective head spacing surface on their respective shoulders. But my trial .450, with the 500gr. RN bullet, pulled out of the .458 Win Mag., still feeds O.K. out of my converted M-98 BRNO military Mauser. Of course it only goes half way, into the 8mm's chamber. But my point is that none of this family of wildcats will weaken the bottom bolt lug abutment of a M-98's receiver. And like you, I will still question Bodog's using his case mouths to head space an OMG class boomer. My .416 has the same roll crimp as the Lyman .416 Rigby dies, and my .450 will have the same roll crimp as the factory .458 Winchester cartridges. Just like in a tubular feed Winchester lever action rifle, you really can't afford to have a bullet get hammered back into the case. I believe that a precise roll crimp into a proper crimp groove or cannelure, is the best preventive step available. So I wonder if Bodog will end up going to a modified or lightly loaded 500 Jeffery, where he can put a good case crimp, into his bullets. But for me, the 375 Ruger Basic case has plenty of volume to work with. I just yawned when my G.S. showed off his .500 Jeffrey reamers. When Bodog blasts off three in a row, using his magazine, we'll know if his wildcat is the real thing. This new Ruger case is really tough, so I just don't know if a second case neck cannelure for the base of the bullet to bear on, will be feasible. But it may just tip the scales in Bodog's favor, when he takes his boomer into the field, going against a big bear or something similar. But I'll stick with std. necks, and roll crimps, as I can grind down my expander button, to get a better grip on my bullets, as needed. But all in all, this has been a pretty neat thread, as Bodog is really pushing the limits of these new 375 Ruger Basic cases. Before Bodog showed up, I thought Ruger had out wildcatted the wildcatters, with their new 375 and 416 DG rounds.
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  #14  
Old 11-14-2012, 11:43 AM
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O.K. Bodog, where did your barrel come from

I've still been working up to the largest round for my left hand Remmie 700 RUM rifle. But I'm getting the run around on barrels that are .500 caliber, and able to fit into my heavy magnum barrel channel. Where or who did up your barrel? I'm getting 101 grs. of H2O to the case mouths of a 2.3 inch wildcat case, made from soldering extensions onto a 500 Wyo. Exp. F.A. case.

This looks to be the max I can get to without butchering my 700's receiver. The 404 Jeffery will be the parent case. I will have to buy a belt forming die to put the anemic W.E. belts into this case. After examining my samples, I realized that I needed to create my own head space datum point, by really jamming a F.L. 500 W.E. sizer down onto my belts. This means no factory W.E. cases will chamber, until they too, get the same treatment.

But I will still have the option of using factory loaded rounds for practice. Handloaded factory cases with heavier bullets, and hotter powder charges than the F.A. 30KCUP limits, for their lighter Mod. 1983 six shooters, will be formidable thumpers, in themselves. But I won't have the convertible functions of shooting the same box of cartridges in both a revolver and my own wildcat rifle. The head space will always be on the belt, so I would have to have sub minimum (NO GO) headspacing put into my revolver cylinder, to even be able to shoot my practice "Factory" ammo.

All this B.S. was made necessary because Jamison Int'l didn't fully form their belts on the 50K 500 Wyo. Exp. cases, they made for Freedom Arms. This belt is really herky, when the header die finishes off, what it was supposed to do, in the first place.

This belt isn't as thick as the H&H standard, but it's certainly as thick as using the case mouth to head space on. Mike Baker at F.A. felt it was much better than the 50 A.E. case, for this reason. I feel my rendition will out perform the B & M magnums made off the Ruger Basic brass, for the same reasons. You really need a good roll crimp, which precludes the case mouth from head spacing your big bore rifle cartridges.

Once I complete forming the belts, they will stay in place for the life of the case. The B & M case mouth approach will keep thinning the case mouths, at each reloading, if you size down enough for the brass to get a good grip on the bullets.

My push feed Remmie will never be a true D.G. rifle, so I think my idea will work within its limits. For all of you right handers out there, this round does function with round nosed bullets out of a Mauser M-98 Rifle, set up for the Jeffery bolt face. Chambering a flat nosed 440 gr. lead slug made for the 500 S&W Magnum, is somewhat balky, but it also works. This may be the ne plus ultra, for hunting hogs in the South. But since I've never hunted that far to the South, I'm just making a guess here. It will be a belted rimless 500 Alaskan, made for a bolt action rifle. So you won't have to track down a scarce Siamese Mauser for a donor rifle.

The stock 404 Jeffery is after all, a 375 H&H length cartridge, which is questionable for a military Mauser M-98 action.
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  #15  
Old 01-18-2013, 02:01 PM
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The 404 is questionable for a 98 but it works good enough if done right..The 404 is questionalbe to some but its the diameter of the case that caused problems not the length.

The .375 is not a problem at all in a 98 Mauser, never has been..Thousands of 98s in 375 are out there. Whitworth, FN, Browning, to name a few...If they are opened up both in the rear and front, no problems exist. The Whitworths are totally opened up in front and I never heard of one blowing up.
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  #16  
Old 01-19-2013, 10:50 AM
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Looks alot like the 500 BDM and its short version a gentleman over at accurate has got going,but I believe he is using the RUM brass for his
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  #17  
Old 01-19-2013, 11:00 AM
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NFG look at the 50 Alaskan, on Wild West Guns. They have been making them for years and have the dies, etc. If kick is what you want I can tell you they have it. they also do the traditional 450 Alaskan on the 348 case. I shot one once and they are basicaally a 458 mag in a opened up 348 win.

All of these are on the 336 lever modified by them.
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  #18  
Old 01-19-2013, 03:25 PM
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Bargain basement 458 Lott

Bodog and Harry S.,

I heard back from a gentleman in Cody who works with larger bore Newton Wildcats. His 416 Newton has the exact same capacity of H2O as my longer necked 10.6mm x 375 Ruger. His 450 Newton is 2.5 inches long, and mine will be 0.030" shorter.

Anything I can do with my 416, he can do with his wildcatted Newton. Anything he has done with his 450 Newton, I can do with my number. Here's the kick. He has claimed to have chronoed, 458 Lott velocities with his 450 Newton. He thinks its a combination of the larger diameter case and the small remaining bottle neck in this case.

His 416 case looks better than mine, with its Newton pedigree. We both form them from 375 Ruger brass in one pass through our F.L. sizing dies. But I only have to kiss the mouths with my case trimmer, and he must trim back over a tenth of an inch, for each case.

These two 450's will both need to be trimmed and formed from the Ruger Basic brass. Again its a one pass job, but this time I will be the one trimming back the most.

Now, cutting to the chase:

Bodog's idea is really neat, and way ahead of what I'm trying. But I made up three dummies out of 500 Wyo. Exp. cases with sections of Ruger Basics soldered on their open ends. The Wyo. Exp. is a 404 Jeffery pattern, which is swaged down beyond its dinky little belt. At 2&3/8th's inches long, this case will feed out of a Mauser M-98 magazine, if it uses a round nosed bullet. The flat tipped 500 S&W Mags don't do so well. Ahead of these dinky belts, both rounds are the same diameter. So a shortened Bodog will do the same in a Model M-98.

These two 450's made on this same Ruger basic case will also feed round nosed bullets, and they will give 458 Lott velocities, in a cartridge amenable to the old military Mauser M-98's action. I'm designing my .500 to work out of a L.H. push feed Remington. So I'm staying down at express rifle levels. Bodog is pushing harder, but his comparisons should be with the 458 Lott, IMHO.

My comparisons are with the 50 Alaskan and the newer 500 Alaskan. But I need round noses and they require flat tips for their tube magazines. So even here, I'll be scratching to find bullets, at common working velocities. Bodog must find ones that work in game, at considerably higher velocities. This has been the province of the .510 inch diameter bullets, and you need a larger diameter case to use them.

I may have to end up going with a re-fomed and shortened 416 Rigby. This means radically altering either a Mauser or my L.H. Remington RUM.

I think the ideal case diameter for all of these would be one, about .570 inch, at the case head. That way you could fit a shoulder or a real good looking belt onto either a .510 or the newer .500's. But do any of us need more power than a 458 Lott??

I've put my name on a list at Hornady to buy a batch of 416 Rigby basic brass, sometime this year. Then if I go with the larger case I will need to have my G.S. fit a Wea. Mk V mag box into my Rem 700, and either use the Rigbys with a shoulder or swage belts into them. Plan B is to use the even larger belts on the 378 Wea. factory cases.

But my Remmie isn't going to ever be a true D.G. rifle, so I'm still experimenting with the Jeffery case. But Now I'm leaning towards the RUM cases, trimmed and shortened, before swaging a belt into them. I'm thinking that I can pick up an extra 0.010" for my belts, on what is still the same as Bodog's wildcat, only shorter.

Remington beefed up these cases for their rebated rim design. This may require a lengthened belt, somewhat like the one on the 450 Marlin. Actually, you might think of this as a scaled up 500 Marlin, at 2.3 inches long. Grains of powder, per mm of length, of these respective cases, will be very close to Bodog's. The RUM cases are so much beefier, that one in 450 cal. and the same length as the 450 Newton, from Cody, will only give a couple of grains more of H2O to their respective case mouths.

The Ruger Basic is a very efficient case design with which to work with. It's hard to beat with anything that will cycle through a cheap Mauser action. About the only plus which I can see, with using the RUM cases, is a better belt or shoulder for head spacing a .500 or .510 round nosed bullet. Bodog already has all the available capacity and probably all of the potential velocities. IMHO, we both will run out of bullet integrity, in the .500's before we get to our top loads. In the .510's its another story, but these are too big around for the Ruger Basic Brass.

But my original idea of being able to shoot 500 w.e. factory ammo, for practice, has given way to just making sure whatever round I end up with, will safely head space in my chamber.
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  #19  
Old 03-16-2013, 12:30 PM
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G.S.'s input

My G.S. suggested we go with the 510 Wells, and just load it real light. The shorty Cyrus won't be contained if it's only held by the two "wings" at the rear of my Rem 700 RUM's magazine. We both agreed that the puny little bottle neck on the 510 Well's cases, just won't do it for head spacing.

I guess the next step will be to bug Dave Kiff, at PT&G about getting the larger diameter Rem 700 Bolt body, but with a left hand cam machined into it's end. My G.S. says he can fit the largest Sako style hook extractor into a Remmie Bolt, and this will work with the big Weatherby case.

But I'm still deciding, since the barrel which will fit into my stock, would be way too light for the fully loaded 510 Wells. In this light, I'm ordering a few extra elliptical expanders from Hornady, to work my 500 Wyo. Exp. cases up with sections of the cylindrical 375 Ruger Basic Brass. I think that I can expand my gradually thickening Ruger case walls out to where I get a much better soldered joint, by tinning both ends, in a snug fitting connection.

I will need these soldered connections to be as thin as possible, to gain as much strength as possible. If this is successful, I just may be able to form my belted cases from trimmed R.U.M.'s, or the Jeffery Basic Brass.

This addition is to inform the thread that I have given up on using the 500 W. E. belt as such. I will design my own, and then re-form any 500 W.E. cases to fit. These then will not be able to be used in any revolver chambered for the 500 W.E. If this path bears fruit, I still may end up with a slightly different 500 Wells, which will need to preclude any 510 Wells from chambering. My goal is still to try and work in a 2.3 inch long case with 500 Kodiak power levels. It only has to stay contained in the Remmie's push feed action.

If the 500 x .404 Jeffery/R.U.M. doesn't work out, then I will redo it as the .500 Wells Short. If I move the Well's shoulders back, the neck should be clipped too.
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  #20  
Old 03-16-2013, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carpooler View Post
I'm getting 101 grs. of H₂O to the case mouths of a 2.3-inch wildcat case...
I was going to use cut-off 300RUM cases for my mildcat, but found the Ruger "holy grail" cylinders before I had dies made for the RUM cut-offs. The RUM, when cut at the shoulder, yields a really nice cylinder of right at 2.40 inches. Would these have been better than soldering cases together? My concern, as I'm sure it was yours, is that the joint is a weak point. How are the soldered cases holding up?
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