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  #1  
Old 09-01-2011, 05:32 PM
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new here new to wildcats very interesting


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just wanted to say hello and thanks for those who already helped me
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  #2  
Old 09-02-2011, 07:20 AM
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Welcome Bigbuckdn I'm also new and have had a good time reading and posting. Again Welcome Al (bgr2014)
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  #3  
Old 09-12-2011, 07:54 AM
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Do you have an idea for a wildcat, bigbuck? This is mine: I am waiting on the barrel. Satern is making it. Have the reamer and headspace gauges. Dies are in the mail. Case is same length as .30-06; neck length is also from .30-06. Any bolt-action .30-06 can be converted to this round by cutting the chamber, opening the boltface and maybe widening the feed rails. An option is to set the barrel back a thread or two to then be cutting the throat on fresh steel.

Last edited by nvshooter; 09-12-2011 at 10:18 AM.
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  #4  
Old 09-12-2011, 06:06 PM
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I have found the biggest key to wildcat cartridges is checking everything. You send a check to the gunsmith, a check to the barrel maker, and a check to the custom die maker...everyone gets a check. When all the checks are done, you usually have a functioning firearm that spits bullets out the end, at one velocity or another. If you're fortunate, said bullets will strike more or less where you aimed them, in a repeatable fashion. You will find it curious that these bullets are no faster than (insert cartridge here) and the groups printed by the bullets are rarely tighter than what you were shooting with the old n' busted rifle buried in your safe.

Fortunately, the gun WILL be unique, and to my befuddled senses, that is worthwhile. Just try to remember that there are only about 2 dozen calibers, and bullets spat forcefully from any one of them will still be within a fairly narrow velocity range, based on the size of the cartridge chosen or designed. Don't be too disappointed when all that money results in a "gun".

For the record, my next wildcat is already on the drawing board and I'm looking forward to all of the cost associated with it.
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  #5  
Old 09-13-2011, 01:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvshooter View Post
Do you have an idea for a wildcat, bigbuck? This is mine: I am waiting on the barrel. Satern is making it. Have the reamer and headspace gauges. Dies are in the mail. Case is same length as .30-06; neck length is also from .30-06. Any bolt-action .30-06 can be converted to this round by cutting the chamber, opening the boltface and maybe widening the feed rails. An option is to set the barrel back a thread or two to then be cutting the throat on fresh steel.
very nice I like it mine is also in the works
270-264 barrel and dies being made now
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  #6  
Old 09-13-2011, 02:40 AM
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NVShooter, what's the water capacity to the neck on a sized case for that necked down and shortened 375 Ruger? I'm trying to figure out where it fits in with the plethora of other 30 magnums...I'm figuring it will be pretty close to a 300 WSM...without the "S" part!
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  #7  
Old 09-14-2011, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by broom_jm View Post
NVShooter, what's the water capacity to the neck on a sized case for that necked down and shortened 375 Ruger? I'm trying to figure out where it fits in with the plethora of other 30 magnums...I'm figuring it will be pretty close to a 300 WSM...without the "S" part!
The idea behind this round is to have it feed reliably in my rifle. I think the volume in the bottle neck is .55 cc. The 300WSM round fed horribly in my long-action rifle. Loading was by single rounds only. I tried to save the barrel and use it for the wildcat, but it was not possible. The lower datum of the WSM is too large at .550 inches (actual) to have used a RUM case, so I had to go 375Ruger (.530) and have a new barrel made. I have no idea how it will perform against an established long magnum shell, but I am unconcerned with that. I just want it to feed like a Garand...

Once I have my dies (allegedly to be delivered the week of September 12-16) I will form up a case, cut the neck off and measure its volume.
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  #8  
Old 09-15-2011, 03:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvshooter View Post
The idea behind this round is to have it feed reliably in my rifle. I think the volume in the bottle neck is .55 cc. The 300WSM round fed horribly in my long-action rifle. Loading was by single rounds only. I tried to save the barrel and use it for the wildcat, but it was not possible. The lower datum of the WSM is too large at .550 inches (actual) to have used a RUM case, so I had to go 375Ruger (.530) and have a new barrel made. I have no idea how it will perform against an established long magnum shell, but I am unconcerned with that. I just want it to feed like a Garand...

Once I have my dies (allegedly to be delivered the week of September 12-16) I will form up a case, cut the neck off and measure its volume.
I'm sure it will feed much more reliably than a 300WSM, short action or long. In fact, the round you've created looks to be very similar to what many consider THE ORIGINAL 308 magnum: The 30 Newton!

http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd30newton.jpg

I'm very impressed with your idea, NVS...you will get roughly 300WM performance out of a non-belted case, with a sensible neck length. Even with all of the other 30 caliber magnums out there, you've come up with something that will be very competitive, while staying with a standard length case/action, and will allow folks to rechamber an existing 30-'06 barrel. If they use a Savage action, changing the bolt face will be the only other consideration.

Please keep us up to date on this most excellent 'cat!
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  #9  
Old 09-15-2011, 04:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broom_jm View Post
I have found the biggest key to wildcat cartridges is checking everything. You send a check to the gunsmith, a check to the barrel maker, and a check to the custom die maker...everyone gets a check. When all the checks are done, you usually have a functioning firearm that spits bullets out the end, at one velocity or another. If you're fortunate, said bullets will strike more or less where you aimed them, in a repeatable fashion. You will find it curious that these bullets are no faster than (insert cartridge here) and the groups printed by the bullets are rarely tighter than what you were shooting with the old n' busted rifle buried in your safe.

Fortunately, the gun WILL be unique, and to my befuddled senses, that is worthwhile. Just try to remember that there are only about 2 dozen calibers, and bullets spat forcefully from any one of them will still be within a fairly narrow velocity range, based on the size of the cartridge chosen or designed. Don't be too disappointed when all that money results in a "gun".

For the record, my next wildcat is already on the drawing board and I'm looking forward to all of the cost associated with it.
broom you forgot the wait cause its write a check to barrel maker and wait and wait and wait
then write check to the die maker and wait some more
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  #10  
Old 09-15-2011, 04:19 AM
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nvs I would call your round much more of a wildcat then mine you have come up with a real nice round here you did a lot more in the development process. you even have it fig how to convert 30-06
that infor could probaly be used to convert a 270 for mine.

I just necked up a case to fit my favorite bullet in a grain weight I like and push it a bit hotter than normal. my barrel is for encore so no bolt and rails to wory about.
looking to future to do it in a bolt I thing a 264 re throated and rebarreled is how I would go but now I have to look into your planned rifle conversion.
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  #11  
Old 09-15-2011, 07:36 AM
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If the 375 Ruger continues to be available, it will be the parent brass for a lot of cartridges...it has magnum capacity from a belt-less case, and the geometry that so many of us "coke-bottle" cartridge guys almost insist on. You could take NVshooter's basic idea and neck up/down to your heart's content; they would all be pretty good offerings.
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  #12  
Old 09-16-2011, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broom_jm View Post
If the 375 Ruger continues to be available, it will be the parent brass for a lot of cartridges...it has magnum capacity from a belt-less case, and the geometry that so many of us "coke-bottle" cartridge guys almost insist on. You could take NVshooter's basic idea and neck up/down to your heart's content; they would all be pretty good offerings.
The brass is available in cylinder form as Hornady p/n 8674. I've seen prices as low as $38 a box up to $52. It comes annealed to about 3/4 toward the head. I have one example of the fully-formed case they made for me. I put a bullet in it. I am busy these days, but can post it on Saturday (9/17) when I get time to take a breath.
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  #13  
Old 09-16-2011, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by broom_jm View Post
Please keep us up to date on this most excellent 'cat!
I shall. I am a member at ammoguide and am signed-on to range reports over there once the rifle is completed. I am just waiting on the barrel. It was ordered in late May, as were the dies. I hope it comes soon. I want to get out in the desert and shoot this thing before I'm too old to enjoy it.

Just measured the neck diameter of the one case I have. Measured 0.3375 inches. Reamer is cut to 0.338 inches. Would be nice if I did not have to turn necks, but I expect that is very much in the offing. One fitting case does not make for 300 cases that fit.

The shoulder angle was chosen because it is the same as that of the round that went through the M-1 Garand maybe 100 million times in World War II. Hard to beat such a record. Hornady was also able to design the dies such that I do not have to fireform. Saves throat wear. The neck length was chosen to keep the flame inside the case during firing. Saves throat wear. Consider: One shot costs you about $1.00 in replacement costs because of throat erosion. I wanted to avoid that. I think I may have.

I am considering loaning out my reamer and headspace gauges for a $300 cashier's check. You use the reamer, return it in serviceable shape-- and get your original check back. What's not to like? The reamer was $200; each headspace gauge was $50. I'm not Pacific Tool and Gauge, or 4D, so I have to cover my costs in case it never comes back. Dave Manson says his reamers will cut 30-40 chambers before needing to be resharpened. I doubt there's 30 people worldwide who'd want to try my mildcat-- it isn't sexy enough, doesn't have a short enough neck and doesn't use gobs of powder...
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  #14  
Old 09-16-2011, 04:54 PM
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A nice visual...

Finished case on far right...

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  #15  
Old 09-16-2011, 05:11 PM
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nice looking brass
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  #16  
Old 09-16-2011, 06:07 PM
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After you get the barrel back and wring it out, maybe more than a few guys will be interested. Your idea creates 30 magnum power without any of the drawbacks of radiused shoulders, belted cases, or WSM feed problems. I think you might be onto something, really...I've never been in the market for a 30 caliber magnum, but I like the way you're going about it.
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  #17  
Old 09-17-2011, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by broom_jm View Post
After you get the barrel back and wring it out, maybe more than a few guys will be interested. Your idea creates 30 magnum power without any of the drawbacks of radiused shoulders, belted cases, or WSM feed problems. I think you might be onto something, really...I've never been in the market for a 30 caliber magnum, but I like the way you're going about it.
Thank you very much. The neck length and shoulder angle came to me as I was driving (my job) south on US 395 just south of the CA/NV border. I asked myself "What cartridge is the best-feeding long-action shell of all time? I'll make my neck and shoulder angle match that one." Then it came to me: The .30-06 as used in the Garand. We fired bazillions of them in WWII. The lives of several million US soldiers depended on that rifle and its ammo. Gotta be a clue, there. And so it was. I made the changes from a 30-degree angle and .400 neck length, sent the drawing to Dave Manson, he returned a reamer drawing, that went to Ben Syring at Hornady and a week or so later Ben emails and says he can design the dies to avoid fireforming. I was elated. My barrel is probably going to be six to seven bills. I do not want to plasma-blast away 15-20% of its life fireforming. My mildcat may be low-power, but it does not destroy the throat. The 300WinMag and 300RUM are throat-destroyers. Sure, that long body and ultra-short neck are sexy and bespeak muzzle velocities approaching the speed of light but for me, it's all about feeding and getting 1,000 or more rounds down the tube while still being able to put the bullet into the bottom of a can of Coke at 600 yards. I'm not saying I can do that, but I am determined...
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  #18  
Old 09-17-2011, 04:46 PM
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The 30 Newton, or your modern day equivalent, is nothing to sneeze at. If you load it up to the full pressure of the 375 Ruger, I don't know that you could call it a "mildcat"! The closest current wildcat to emulate the 30 Newton is called the 30 Belted Newton, which is simply a 338WM necked down. Your cat is probably going to be within about 5% of the case capacity of the 300WM, which will make it pretty danged powerful, in my mind. It won't be a 300 RUM-DUMMY, but it will definitely let ya know you pulled the trigger!

I don't know how accurate it will be, but I would expect it to be a real big-boy rifle when you're done!
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  #19  
Old 09-17-2011, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by broom_jm View Post
Your 'cat is probably going to be within about 5% of the case capacity of the 300WM, which will make it pretty danged powerful, in my mind.

I don't know how accurate it will be, but I would expect it to be a real big-boy rifle when you're done!
I have my dies and have learned where to set them in the press. I will press out a finished case and cut off the top, giving us the usable volume up to the bottom of the neck if using flat-based bullets. A boat-tail bullet would, by definition, give us a bit of a compressed load. I ain't never been much for smashing the powder down into the case. It's just something I won't do.

Right now, I have to go to Scheels in Sparks and spend some $25 gift cards. I have four. I will buy a pound of IMR 7828 powder for the mildcat, a box of 220-grain Sierra GameKing bullets for big-game (elk, moose, bear, caribou) load testing and a few other things for the mildcat. Catch y'all later!
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  #20  
Old 09-17-2011, 05:48 PM
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Of the many wildcat projects I've seen, one that is designed for feeding function, overall - instead of velocity - (the usual) is a nice change. I hope it works well for you.
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