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  #1  
Old 01-11-2005, 06:28 PM
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New .25-35 Winchester


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This is a link to the Winchester site and the new .25-35 Trails End, 20" round barrel with blued reciever.This rifle has a fore end cap and lesser cresent buttplate. I think that my "Hero" Francis Sell would approve. A change of sights and the rifle looks like a hunter to me.Francis Sell wrote at least once on the advantage of the slight cresent butt plate for the offhand hunter. I sure want this rifle. I will have to get a reamer for the Tom Cat now.
I also need to write Winchester and thank them for making a Hunters rifle. It wont last long. I'll get mine as quick as I can.

http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodin...d=117&cat=003C
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  #2  
Old 01-12-2005, 05:38 PM
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Slim,

What is a lesser cresent buttplate?
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  #3  
Old 01-12-2005, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLS
Slim,

What is a lesser cresent buttplate?
I forget where I first read this term. I think it was somthing that Turner Kirkland wrote. It just means a shallower cresent. The Canadian Centenial buttplate would qualify, I think, as a lesser cresent.

Fransis Sell wrote an article for the Gun Digest about improving you ofhand accuracy through the use of a mild curved or cresent buttplate.
The .25-35 is a good cartridge for my hunting terrain. Closer in thick brush growing up through chained brush. There are a few .25-35's in use around here but their owners are not the type to frequent these boards.
Dave Scovill from Handloader and Rifle magazines uses a .25-35 Winchester M-94 short rfle for close in work on coyotes. His rifle is pictured in the current Hodgdon Reloading manual. Not the paperback but the three ring binder. I think his rifle has a full cresent buttplate.
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  #4  
Old 01-13-2005, 06:15 AM
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The Winchester web site page is a little confusing on this rifle as the text says the rifle has a straight butt plate. I assume they mean a straight butt stock.

Francis Sell wrote and article for the 1984 Gun Digest entitled "Shoot Better Offhand With A Curved Buttplate". This article features his Marlin 336 chambered for his Wildcat cartridge, the .25-35 Tomcat. The buttplate looks like the Winchester Canadian Centennial curved buttplate. I have pictured a Canadian Centennial buttstock to show the even curve. The second picture is the crescent buttstock from my wife's Grade 1 Winchester Centennial.
I think Sell's idea of the curved buttplate is a good idea for a snap-shooting rifle. I find the crescent buttplate on my wife's rifle to be a little slow coming to the shoulder.
Shooting at clay birds on a dirt bank and at silhouettes off hand, the crescent is a little slower to bring to the shoulder. Once on the shoulder the crescent is a little easier for me to shoot than the straight shotgun buttplate stock.
I purchased the Canadian Centennial buttstock shortly after reading Sell's article. I have an M-94 parts gun made up with a 20" Canadian Centennial barrel that I have reamed for .30-30 Improved. This rifle currently wears a standard buttstock with a shotgun buttplate that is "dimpled", perhaps a late 1950's or early 1960's buttplate. The heavier full octagon barrel moves the cg of the rifle forward and I think it might come up to my shoulder a little quicker and hold steadier with the curved buttplate. The problem is the Canadian Centennial buttplate is smooth, blued steel. I have hesitated fitting this buttstock to my rifle as I think the buttplate should probably be coarsely checkered. Doubt about which way to proceed has kept this buttstock in a box.
The Canadian Centennial fore end on my parts gun is short. I like it because I tend to wrap a finger around the forend cap and this helps me to pull the rifle into my shoulder. I wonder if the longer fore end on the new Winchester will be as handy. The round barrel of the .25-35 rifle should weigh a little less than the .30 caliber octagon barrel. Time will tell.

I think I am finally happy with the sights on my parts gun. It now wears a Lyman No. 2 Tang sight, A Marbles folding flat top open rear sight, adjustable for windage and elevation. It currently has a Williams large white bead front sight but I will probably replace it with a new Sourdough from Brownells. I have more money invested in the sights than in the rest of the rifle!
For the new Angle Eject Model 94's the Williams receiver sight is hard to beat. A folding open rear sight is a nice option. We are still experimenting with different size front sight beads. We all seem to have a different preference for the size of the bead. White or gold color does not seem to matter. My preference for a front sight is the Sourdough. The gold insert does not bother me and I like the flat top.
Francis Sell said a bead was better for a hunting rifle. He said if you sighted in so the bullet struck at the center under the bead you could be assured the bullet would stay under the bead to two hundred or more yards. It makes sense when you look at the trajectory chart. Sell also preferred the small 1/16" bead.
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New .25-35 Winchester-no2.jpg   New .25-35 Winchester-no4.jpg  
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  #5  
Old 01-13-2005, 10:27 AM
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Thank you sir!

I agree with the second photo, but the first is nearly the same as my old 1911-1894. A friend has one of the TEs and we compared rifles.

I find the 25/35 intriguing, though I admit to knowing little about it.
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  #6  
Old 01-13-2005, 11:34 AM
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If your library has any Francis Sell books his American Deer Hunter and Advanced Deer Huinting and Small Game Hunting all have some information that is interesting.

While some other writers have written good things about the .25-35, Charles Askins Sr., L. R. Wallack, Few went into ther specifics that Francis Sell did.
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  #7  
Old 01-13-2005, 01:22 PM
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Slim,
There you go causing issues. I just sold a savage 99E, that I had lost enchantment with, and was wondering where to invest that money. Had no idea someone was making a 25-35. Ever since I read the article on the Tom-cat, I have had a "need" for one, but just couldn't see my way thru a rebarrel job. Now, what am I going to do????????????
Doug
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  #8  
Old 01-13-2005, 06:12 PM
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I have a TC barrel in .25-35 and it cannot be hot rodded. Extraction gets sticky quickly and with little warning. Francis Sell has a good design, as does Bullberry. It will allow us to slightly increase velocity with the newer powders. This not being a radical improvement the cartrdige retains it basic charm.

There are now four of us wanting one of these. Looks like Winchester stands to make a fortune!
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  #9  
Old 01-18-2005, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by william iorg
I have a TC barrel in .25-35 and it cannot be hot rodded. Extraction gets sticky quickly and with little warning. Francis Sell has a good design, as does Bullberry. It will allow us to slightly increase velocity with the newer powders. This not being a radical improvement the cartrdige retains it basic charm.

There are now four of us wanting one of these. Looks like Winchester stands to make a fortune!
Why can't the TC shoot the hotter rounds, but the Winchester can? Or is there another step in the reading that I don't know about?
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  #10  
Old 01-18-2005, 07:08 AM
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As usual I was not clear! The standard .25-35 in any rifle gets sticky quick. In the TC you can easily break the extractor if you increase pressure. When you open the action the case will not budge and the extractor is trying its best to do it's job.
In the Winchesters I have had to insert a close fitting rod and tap the rod while trying to open the lever. Not worth the effort.
The Tomcat and the Bullberry are straighter cases and like the Ackley are not as prone to stick.
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Old 01-18-2005, 08:04 AM
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Oh, I see - what if you were to "improve" the .25-35? Would that straighten the case enough you think?
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  #12  
Old 01-18-2005, 08:44 AM
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Here is a link to a thread on the Tomcat. I think there are others tucked away in the Wildcat section. Also look on the memeber list for David White. Look for his thread on the .30-30AI.
Straightening the case cures the problem. But then we get into case forming issues. The .25 Bullberry was designed for no hassel forming. Size the case and it grows in length . the chamber is cut that way and not require a lot of work on the part of the handloader. The Tomcat is a little different. It probably will not shoot factory ammunition. The Ackley is even more radical. List member John Anderson

http://www.shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=16411
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Old 01-18-2005, 10:42 AM
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Hmm... good reading. I was just interested because I have a fondness for old cartridges noone else shoots.

Thanks.
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  #14  
Old 01-18-2005, 11:58 AM
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I feel the same way. You would be surprised at the accuracy of the .25-35 in a lever action, and the TC for that matter. What is missing is a good 100 JFN bullet for deer hunting. That is where the various "Improved" versions come in. The increased velocity of the 117 grain bullets changes the cartridge.
I have never bneen able to purchase .25-35 brass in bulk and mkae it from the .30-30. It must be inside reamed to remove the doughnut at the bottom of the neck. This slows things down a bit.
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  #15  
Old 02-07-2005, 04:36 PM
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Hello guy`s , this has me all fired up . I want one. I heard a rumor that this same rifle is offered in a Legacy model to. Octagon barrel , with case colored receiver. That`s the one i want ! Has anyone else heard this rumor? It`s supposed to sell for aprox , $650.00
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  #16  
Old 02-27-2005, 04:58 PM
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25-35 brass from .375 Winchester brass

Quote:
Originally Posted by william iorg
I feel the same way. You would be surprised at the accuracy of the .25-35 in a lever action, and the TC for that matter. What is missing is a good 100 JFN bullet for deer hunting. That is where the various "Improved" versions come in. The increased velocity of the 117 grain bullets changes the cartridge.
I have never been able to purchase .25-35 brass in bulk and mkae it from the .30-30. It must be inside reamed to remove the doughnut at the bottom of the neck. This slows things down a bit.
.


Since there seems to be a problem with thinning/splitting in fireforming 25-35 brass to one of the improved versions, can .375 Winchester brass be used. It is much thicker and with a length of 2.020" there should not be an immediate problem with case stretching that exceeds the 25-35 brass length of 2.043".

Oned upon a time there was a thick walled case for use in wildcating the 30-30 family of cartridges called the American. It used a small rifle primer.
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  #17  
Old 02-28-2005, 04:06 AM
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I have never come up with any .30 American cases. I make my .25-35 cases from R-P .30-30 cases. i find the Winchester cases just a little hard and they require annealing.

I use a Redding .219 Zipper No. 2 form die for the first step. Then full length size the cases in a .25-35 size die. The cases grow and must be trimmed quite a bit.

I have formed some .25-35 cases from .375 Winchester but they would not really accept any higher pressure than the .30-30 cases prior to sticky extraction setting in.

All of the cases require inside neck reaming to eliminate the doughnut at the neck/shoulder junction.

Making the cases is a good movie night project.
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