This forum has been great reading on the pros and cons of .450Marlin vs 45/70. Thank you to so many who have shared their thoughts. There are just a few things that I'd like to know before making up my mind.
Why doesn't Browning doesn't offer the BLR in 45/70 yet they offer the relatively new .450 Marlin? Kind of baffles me as a Browning owner. (I'm not buying the limited run of $3000 BLRs in 45/70 to go hunting.)
I'm enamored with the 45/70 round and with Browning rifles. I guess I want my cake and and want to eat it too.
Is .450 Marlin ammo really as scarce as I have read? I sent a friend to Bass Pro and he didn't see any and the clerk said to Fughetaboutit.
Thanks for entertaining a newbie question and greetings!
I do not have a answer for the 45-70 BLR question, but 450 Marlin ammunition has not been hard for me to find here in upstate New York. I recently purchased a case of 450 Leverevolution ammo from Cheaper than Dirt, no problem. I had it within a week delivered to my front porch. I have 2 450 Marlins model 1895M guide guns, and a 45-70 1895 guide gun. Like them all
I'm pretty sure that Browning decided to take advantage of the way better prospects for HOT loads that the .450 might give. The Marlin 1895 is rated for about 45,000 PSI and the BLR S/A is rated for about 65,000 PSI. Any load good for the Ruger #1 or Browning SS rifles in 45-70 flavor should easily be able to be matched in a BLR/.450.
I bought the BLR/.450 as soon as it was released. I bought an 1895 afterwards, just because. I own both and am firmly convinced as to which is the better rifle, without a doubt.
It'd never work with the bolt face the BLR has (closely resembles an AR15 bolt face)...and if you made it big enough to fit the 45-70 case head...the whole rifle would be thrown all out of whack.
The BLR bolt rotates into the locked position, just like an AR15...with multiple lugs rotating and locking into the barrel...the whole barrel would have to be much thicker, or at least the shank...and that would look kinda funny on a BLR.
That is exactly what I suspected but with all the calibers that are chambered for the BLR, I would have bet you a dollar that more than one was rimmed. I've since gone back and looked closely at the Browning list of calibers and was shocked to see that all are high power, "modern" cases.
I know that the .450 M and 45/70 GOV are pretty close ballisticaly. Truth be told I was seriously considering a pistol/rifle matched pair. The BFR 45/70 is just too sexy and I wanted another Browning rifle to match it.
If cheaper than dirt sells 450 M ammo, then all is right in the world. I see The Sportsman's Guide does too.
Honestly, I like 'em both and use them both. The BLR is simply a better rifle, however IMHO. A couple things I really like about the BLR are the ease of loading and unloading, the idea of a single safety, rather than a double one and the shorter, smoother lever throw. I have found another couple places that sell .450 ammo (along with 45-70 & .444) at good prices. Here's a couple links:
Just for the rest of the world...... I've been able to find 450 Marlin ammo on the shelf a couple places. I'm looking for a BLR but having trouble finding the caliber. I'm on a couple "wish lists".
You all are aware that Marlin dropped the 1895M (450 Marlin) from their line. It's no longer listed in the on-line catalog. Not sure why they did this. I found out about it on the Marlin User's Forum.
You all are aware that Marlin dropped the 1895M (450 Marlin) from their line. It's no longer listed in the on-line catalog. Not sure why they did this. I found out about it on the Marlin User's Forum.
When I just checked a few minutes ago, I found this advertisement on the MARLIN website. It appears that this firearms is again being manufactured by MARLIN.
The saga continues. My new BLR sits at the dealer waiting for me to pick it up today. I settled for the blued version because I could not find stainless anywhere. Also it was very hard to find the blued version in pistol grip. OF COURSE, today I get e-mail notification that the stainless in PG is now available. I'm sick. I've called the retailer to determine the damage of doing a return/exchange.
Sounds like it getting close now! I guess the only thing you can do now is open a box of ammo and fondle a handfull of those 350gr FN loads. They make quite a handful ya know!!
I'd think that there would never be a reason why Browning would switch/include the .45-70. The .450 fits their rifle's potential a lot better than the 45-70 would. I have now seen posts from people loading the .450 to Ruger #1 45-70 + specs with no signs of problems. Remember, the brass of the .450 is designed and built to be more substantial as well. I now own two .450s, with one a BLR and this will likely be the cartridge that makes me become a handloader in the future.
I took my virgin 450 BLR into the woods this weekend. It was a buck only hunt. 2 does ran by real fast and 5 minutes later a coyote met it's match. I was tickled pink! The sound this rifle makes is majestic.
My BLR/.450 went to the woods Saturday afternoon as well, but no shots fired. It did take it's first game last year though and oddly enough, it was a coyote for mine as well.
1st; Rim Diameter. I'm not sure the boltface dimensions but the .610 diameter rim of the 45-70 may be too large for the boltface. Wheras the 450 Marlin is a shoe-in with the belted case sharing the same dimensions as the H&H based case. The BLR is already available in 7mm mag therefore the only major change to the rifle would be the barrel.
2nd; Feeding. Rimmed cartridges can be difficult to feed from a box magazine. Anyone who has ever had an old Siamese Mauser built into a 45-70 knows it takes a keen fellow to make them feed smoothly. Not to mention, If you perhaps get a top cartridge rim hooked behind a lower one, you can get frustrated in a hurry if you don't catch what you've done. Yes I know there are rimmed firearms in various forms including the 22, however their magazines are shaped differently than that of the standard rimless magazines which the BLR has.
All in all the BLR is a neat modern levergun and would do nicely in the 450. Personally, ( me being a bit more traditional ) would love to see a Savage 99 with their rotary mag chambered in a big bore. ( still crying over the demise of the 99 in 358 winchster.)
What Browning could do, if they really had the notion, or made modifications easier, would be to change their 300win platform to something like the old 450 AK or Aclkey mods. Belted magnum based off 348 win, with .458 bullet.
Shear awesomness in a BLR.
WWG is experimenting with 416 Rigby & 375 Ruger in BLR. ~2k each +tax. The metal magazine for the BLR requires the use of a 'necked' round, if only slightly. I believe.
My theory with the big bore BLRs is this. If they can make it for the 7mm rem mag, then they may as well and go the full route and chamber it in the 458 win mag since they're the same basic overall lengths. Now that would be a real big bore rifle.
How about this question though. Puma does make a .454 Casull lever gun. It's a high pressure round. How much hotter is a .45-70 load shot through the Marlins than a .454 shot through a rifle length barrel?
If we're gonna make a wish list, make mine a S/A BLR "Guide Gun" with 20" barrel in 9.3 BS (a .350 RM necked to 9.3mm) giving 2600+ FPS with 250gr TSX and 2400+ FPS with a 286gr TSX
There's always the BLR in .450. I own one of them along with a 2006 1895 in 45-70. The BLR is a very nice rifle and if pressed, I'd keep it over the 1895, personally. Most 1895s made prior to 2009 should have very good-excellent quality. Best of luck finding something!
Although Browning does not offer such a creation; It is possible to rebarrel the BLR with a Wildcat 458 which is based upon the 300 WSM. That would certainly give you all of the Big Bullet Whoomp that you could stand.
The .300 Win mag BLR's have been converted to .338 Win, .375 Taylor and others. A full .458 is the same length, but the long round nose bullet could cause problems. Even the BAR was storied in Gun Digest when converted to .416. With enough time and $$$, who knows?
I haven't had time to do any extensive testing, but accuracy in my re-chambered and re-bored BLR (.308 to .338 Fed) seems acceptable. Jess and JES reboring did it, and I'm happy I had it done. It's a takedown model, though, and he told me that he'll only re-bore the alloy receiver models if they are takedown. Hope that helps.
Deck
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